038: The Revolution of Efficiency with Andrea Dallan

[00:00:37] Zach White: So before we dig deep into the fund, you know, you know, areas of technology and influence that you’ve written books about and really driving with your company and your focus.

[00:00:47] Take us back a bit to the beginning. I always love to hear kind of the origin story of engineers. What got you excited about engineering in the first place? So what was that for you, Andrea? How did engineering really get its start in your life? 

[00:01:04] Andrea Dallan: Well, I have, uh, uh, one, uh, I had one example in my family was my father.

[00:01:11] And, uh, he actually started the company I’m working in right now as a CEO. Um, in 1978 when I was three years. And he graduated in mechanical engineering as well. And, you know, so that, uh, uh, looking at him, uh, um, designing machines. So very early on, I understood the possibility to create something that does not exist just through, Using your brain, your mind, your idea, your ingenuity.

[00:01:37] It was something that really sparked my interest from very, very early on. So, eventually, so I decided, to, study engineering when I was at the high school. so I did my mechanical engineering studies, and, uh, I also understood that I like, foreign languages because we are based in Italy, but, uh, our company is working in Europe and in the states.

[00:02:00] And so I progressively, I focused on that more on the sales aspect of engineering. So engineering of processes, the efficiency of production processes. Uh, and so on. So right now, so it’s 20 years, 22 years. So it’s been a long, very interesting journey from the very first day. So 

[00:02:26] Zach White: that’s amazing. So take me back to Italy.

[00:02:31] You know, dad is starting the company. What were those early days? Like? Was it kind of a quick success? Was it a really difficult journey in terms of getting things off the ground? What were you seeing as a child? 

[00:02:46] Andrea Dallan: Well, I didn’t see my father a lot because he was spending a lot of his time in, uh, uh, the company.

[00:02:52] Uh, well, he used the worker before starting the company in a one, uh, um, In one company that, uh, produced window frames, doorframes starting from, uh, metal coils and using the roll forming machines. And he actually fell in love with this, uh, ROS production, uh, processor. And at that time, he was also studying mechanical engineering.

[00:03:13] He decided to, uh, finish his studies, uh, by, uh, deepening his knowledge in a role for Mingo technique. And he actually wrote at that time, so in the seventies, a one program or on algorithm in foreground for, uh, which helped him to. Uh, I’m I’m wine, the flower of the road form the profile. It’s something very technical.

[00:03:38] But anyway, so 

[00:03:40] Zach White: I haven’t heard somebody talk about four Tran four and a lot. I mean, I’m not, I never learned for tramp, but that’s really cool. So, I mean, I’m sure engineering leader listening, some of the folks who were there for those days would like, no, tell us Andrea, the whole story we’ll skip the detail, but okay.

[00:03:57] So here. Kind of building a passion around, I can combine my engineering knowledge with this process. And, and inside of that combination is where the company 

[00:04:05] Andrea Dallan: was born. Exactly. I am the source code. all of the fourth round four program of my father in my drawer here. So that’s so 

[00:04:15] Zach White: cool. What a neat story, but that’s 

[00:04:18] Andrea Dallan: we’ll, we’ll keep it for a museum.

[00:04:20] Zach White: Yeah. But what a great legacy piece for your family. And so you said a statement earlier that really struck me because I love it. It’s super true. That. This idea of creating something from nothing, creating something that does not exist. And that the engineer in you was really drawn to that, you know, could you just expand on that idea?

[00:04:42] What is it about creating things from nothing that inspires you? 

[00:04:48] Andrea Dallan: Um, well, so what, uh, uh, what inspires me is. Well, and the part that I like the most of my job right now is when, uh, one customer, one company or one engineer comes to me and they have one problem in their production and this problem can be manufacturing a new product.

[00:05:07] And in this case, we have to find out, uh, in which way we can build a particular tool or dye to manufacture this. But sometimes it’s that, not only technical, uh, it’s also how to optimize the process. So over time, uh, my, my experience, I have found that that, that the problems that we are facing in manufacturing are always connected with some specific areas, which are all they can all can be confessed in the terms of efficiency.

[00:05:39] So, eh, when, uh, uh, So it is not just the creating something like creating a new product about this product. It needs to be created also as efficiently as possible. using, optimizing the raw materials, optimizing the use of energy, which is today is extremely important with the right amount of flexibility, um, and the, in the short time.

[00:06:00] So these are the, today. There is also the aspect of automation. Which is extremely, extremely important. Why? Because, uh, uh, today all companies, especially in, in Europe and in the U S they have faced difficulties in finding personnel for their productions. So we have these two, uh, big trends that we are seeing is that companies in our countries, they want to bring back productions that were earlier than.

[00:06:29] Manufacturing you maybe in the far east or in other countries where the cost of labor was lower. And so they need to bring it back to Europe or to the U S but also, uh, we need to bring them back with the right amount of automation, because we have a much higher production costs, labor costs, and also it’s difficult to find the skilled people.

[00:06:53] Uh, in the production, not only were they breeze expensive, so, uh, we see more and more, the requests are for automated processes, um, and the thesis. So the challenges we faced in the early days, so creating something out of nothing. So when the customer comes to you and says, I need to produce this ban study one process for me, one process that creates the.

[00:07:17] Okay. That was a certain level of challenge today. The level of challenge has increased a lot more because they wanted to span produce, but the, with the least amount of scrap with the least amount of energy in the shortest time. And, uh, they not only want the pan they wanted. Factor in carton box is fired up and ready for the exam.

[00:07:42] Zach White: Okay. So the engineer in me is coming back to the surface here, like, all right, let’s start designing Andre. I’m ready, but a lot, I want to unpack there. Before we get into it though. Why don’t you take a moment now? I think it’s a good time. Just set the stage about what, who, you know, the company, tell us about what you do, the specialization that your company has, just so we can understand the context of, of really the work that you all do.

[00:08:04] So tell us about the company. 

[00:08:06] Andrea Dallan: Yes. Okay. Um, I don’t know how many of our listeners are familiar with the process of a roam forming sheet method, but, uh, let me get one profile.

[00:08:18] Okay, so this is a one metal profile. Okay. That is used for creating ceiling. So, which is the fourth suspended ceilings that we have in a lot of offices. 

[00:08:30] Zach White: And so for anybody, who’s only hearing the audio, you got to go check out the video on the website, if you want to actually see this, but looking at a, you know, a nice T-shaped, uh, roll form piece of metal here, but keep going.

[00:08:42] Andrea Dallan: So in this case, it is. Product a is composed of two pieces of metal that come out from coils and they need to be shaped. As you can see in the form of a T uh, not only we need to shape the profile, but we need to create the, also these special hooks so that this profile can interconnect with one another.

[00:09:04] And this is just one of many examples. So, uh, there are a lot of. Uh, metal profile in the construction business and our company focused on a whole Ford medicine. So the reformers is a machine that the using rollers, it will progressively shape the metal strip into this form, but there are also other very common profile.

[00:09:07]  Uh, such as the profiles that we use in drywall construction. So these are the methods that are used for the metal framing, where we apply or where we apply the gypsum boards. There are rolling shutters, Spanish unblind so, so if you look around, uh, sheet metal is, uh, everywhere in our houses. So sometimes hidden in the, uh, uh, in the walls, but it’s something that’s really, um, pervasive.

[00:09:13] And the one important thing about this product is that, uh, and that, that is what the lead, the growth of our companies, that these products are pretty common and very similar from Europe to the United States, to China, to Australia. So my father started the company working just for Italy and he was a designer.

[00:09:33] So that means that he was just designing the rollers. Over time. After a couple of years, it started producing the first machine, but starting from 19 84, 86, he decided that that the company could not stay in Italian only. And he started to attend the international trade shows, uh, uh, in, uh, Europe, uh, in the states, uh, uh, middle east China.

[00:09:57] So right now, Our company is doing 90% of its business outside of Italy end, which is something that I also enjoy a lot because I like traveling. I love traveling. 

[00:10:11] Zach White: Sounds like a good thing for 90% of your business outside the country. let me pause last second. Sorry. I want to jump in and. Just in case anyone listening is like, oh, I’m not into roll, forming sheet metal.

[00:10:16] I don’t care. Like, I don’t want to pay attention if the engineer, the mechanical engineer in me, Andrea’s like, oh yeah. Tell me more about the rollers. Like let’s throw, I want to, I want to go walk the process with you, but, but here’s what I think is so interesting about you and where. This goes and how we want to unpack this, regardless of if you’re in computer engineering, if you’re in automotive, OEMs or tier ones, you’re in suppliers.

[00:10:37] If you’re in aerospace, if the comment you made about the pen was so perfect, no longer in today’s world enough to say. I am an engineer who could create a single solution for how to produce design and produce a pen, you know, T to, to write a single snippet of code, to design a clutch system for the vehicle.

[00:10:59] This idea of efficiency and sustainability around how things are made and how you do the design work itself. So regardless of if you’re on the manufacturing side of the design side is such an important conversation and that’s, I just want everybody to know that that’s really the heart of what makes your organization and Andrea’s special.

[00:11:19] And the work you focused on a lot here in the last couple of years. where was that point in the business where you realized it’s not enough anymore to just produce these different designs. We need to get really focused on how efficiently we can make this happen. Like where was that?

[00:11:39] Was there something in history that shifted? Was there a time that you really remember saying, wow, we need to change here. 

[00:11:46] Andrea Dallan: A lot of these, uh, requests come from would listening. Okay. Uh, I think that when you are, have the opportunity and, uh, you are lucky enough to sit the, with, different engineers, project managers from all over the world.

[00:11:52] Uh, week after week, day after day. So you got a huge, huge opportunity, uh, to start and collect and that there was not a single moment when I realized what are the real, uh, for the industry. It came across the many, many years, but the, uh, the. Being able to enjoy the conversation and being able to listen really that the customer is not just asking for manufacturing one pan, he’s asking to solve a certain set of problems.

[00:12:04] Um, actually I always had the, the, the, the. feeling that the problems that they’re solving is not just making the ban. It is making the production more efficient, but sometimes customers are asking us to, for example, they want increase the level of ultimately. Increasing the level of automation means reducing the amount of labor involved in the manufacturing.

[00:12:11] it means to being more efficient, we want to produce more with less resources in this case, labor, but sometimes they asked them to produce the dishpan using less raw material or less energy or less time or more flexibility. So everything comes down. We want to produce more, using less risk, less resources.

[00:12:33] And this is the essential definition of efficiency. So how much result find our result? I can get at the using how, how many resources in the beginning of. I came down to this definition of efficiency, where we have four main, uh, uh, dimensions. Uh, the first demand they mentioned efficiency is sustainability.

[00:12:56] Uh, and. It can be, um, producing, using less raw material or producing. We using less energy today. Both of these aspects are extremely important because the cost of raw material and the cost of energy are exploding worldwide. So it’s not something that’s related to Europe only. And so a lot of customers say this video, Contacting us because they want to produce a, using less raw material using thinner material.

[00:13:24] They want to produce a thesis, same product, and they want to keep the same Frankfurt, uh, profile using thinner materials so that they can produce more with less. And when we use less raw material, we get to great risks. So this material must not be produced in the first place. And so our production is a lot more sustainable, but the, because I’m not buying it, I’m also making my production a lot more profitable.

[00:13:52] So if I produce the same amount of fan of profiles using less raw material and energy, this is what what may, what is making right now, a huge difference. And it’s. Giving up huge competitive, agile, companies that can look beyond the producing the pen. So that’s, uh, the second, uh, uh, dimension of efficiency is productivity because I can produce one of these bands. Or I can produce 10 pounds per minute at the end. So the unit of time that they needed to produce this ban is one resource. but when I produced. So much more, uh, and I’m thinking of systems that we produce, uh, that, uh, the use to produce that 100 feet per minute.

[00:14:36] And today they produce at 800 feet per minute. So when you get this huge amount of material, you have a lot more productivity, but you also have to have a lot more automation to deal with this huge volume of products coming out of the machine. So. I increased the productivity I needed to increase the, also the level of automation.

[00:14:59] So these are four aspects. So, sustainability, uh, productivity, uh, automation and flexibility, flexibility is more connected that with the aspect of the lean manufacturing. So the just-in-time the being able to. That changed the setup of our lions, uh, quickly, these four aspects anyway, are the four pillars and they are strictly connected together.

[00:15:11] You cannot work on just one of them without having to increase the automation or the efficiency. And this is the kind of concepts that I have taken out. I have written that. Technical articles, uh, any target, uh, uh, technical magazines, but, uh, when in 2020 we had the, this pandemic, uh, starting, I had the, some weekends to collect the, all these ideas, uh, uh, into, uh, into the first book and then the second book.

[00:15:39] So there are a lot of, uh, uh, there is a lot more explanation in the books about these four concepts of efficiency.

[00:15:44] Yeah, 

[00:15:48] Zach White: just to put that in front of everyone, the first book, the revolution of efficiency published in 2020, and then followed by Andrea’s second book, think thin, which he gave a great example just a moment ago about you’re bringing these profiles and thinner sheet metals and how his organization specializes in that technology.

[00:16:08] Uh, and just some really interesting. Places to go explore. So for everybody who wants to geek out on the technology and really get deep on this concept, uh, pick up Andrea’s books and we’ll put the links to those in the show notes, but these four pillars, sustainability productivity, automation, flexibility.

[00:16:25] What strikes me. That’s interesting. And you know, part of again, why I was so excited to just learn from you and this conversation is that I see. Playing out, not just in an engineering manufacturing process, but no, truly it’s infinitely scalable. It could be, you know, how do I drive efficiency into, you know, areas in my home life areas and design areas in manufacturing, you know, in my health, in my relationships, like there’s a lot of places where you could apply this.

[00:16:56] And I’m curious, Andrea, as you’ve really built out these frameworks and the concept. Yeah, the playground for that was your company, but how’s that, how has the pursuit of efficiency changed other areas of your life? Where else do you see this show up? 

[00:17:13] Andrea Dallan: Well, in the organization of my work, in the organization of my hobbies, uh, the one, the ones that they can still keep using.

[00:17:25] Well, you know, if we think of, uh, uh, The efficiency. So we want to have a very good, uh, as good as possible work-life balance. But you know, when you have your own company, you know, how much passion and effort and, uh, effort, uh, you need to invest in it. But also, so given that, uh, the amount of time is a limited resource, we want to.

[00:17:48] Make the really best use of it, uh, in order to fit in all the things that are really meaningful to, uh, for us the time for our family, for my kids, for sport, uh, music, I would, so I have so many projects that I still cannot fit in this schedule. 

[00:18:08] Zach White: Uh, we all understand that. You’d like little places or a specific, uh, like where you got to a really big win in your life because like, oh, I could be more efficient in my personal life, in this way.

[00:18:21] Any little anecdotes or examples that stand out to you?

[00:18:26] Andrea Dallan: Well, you’re making me have one question. I don’t have one, one answer right now. Um, I don’t have one, one answer right now. Um,

[00:18:26] Well right now, it’s that? I must tell you. So, uh, my professional life is taking me so much of my time,  I don’t have a one outerwear, but, well, uh, let’s put it like this if I hadn’t thought of efficiency, uh, in this way, I for sure. I wouldn’t have found the time for putting it down and writing two books in two years or so.

[00:18:46] That for me has been a one unique challenge that that’s driven out time for me out of my work, done my family out of my weekends and nights and so on. But. Given the fact that, that, uh, uh, it was, uh, uh, I thought that, that my schedules were already overbooked the customers, uh, uh, organization administration.

[00:19:08] Thinking about the efficiency, uh, has really given me a great hand to, uh, fit in even more and using my time more efficiently. So eliminating a lot of, uh, scrap or useless activities, investing them efficiently in, uh, um, writings. And really it has been, uh, Well, I th I, I feel that for me, it has been a great win because writing two books in two years and having them translated in five languages.

[00:19:36] Well, that has been a huge work in addition to what I was doing before. And, you know, I got myself a couple of years ago. I don’t know how I have done it. How 

[00:19:49] Zach White: did I do it? So tell us this. These four pillars, you and your organization have built a lot of mastery in this area. When you go into, you know, a company, a customer who’s interested in applying this, they want to become more efficient.

[00:20:07] Can you share with us, what are the blocks? What are the barriers to efficiency, maybe it’s in their mindset or in, um, you know, a legacy system or something. Yeah, they don’t want to let go of that has to change if they want to become, you know, really get that to that next revolution. What are those main barriers you see happen?

[00:20:28] Andrea Dallan: Well, the main barrier is resistance to change. That is the number one thing. And the second one is that they cannot see. Where the problem lies. So w where is, uh, uh, w w where they really have, are missing some of the value in their production processes and our, uh, and what I, what I do and what my colleagues here at the land do.

[00:20:49] Uh, we start by asking questions because, uh, from the, from the. Uh, email that we receive and I know they send us a drawing and now they want, they want the thesis pen produced in. So in that quantity and so on, and that we start to ask questions about the flexibility about the product, the size of the production, batches, about, uh, the amount of material about the costs that they are having right now.

[00:21:15] For this product, is it a make or buy decision? So we have a set of questions that, that helps us to, uh, create one framework and, uh, helps us to explain what kind of, uh, Bottlenecks there are in his current process and what could really help him solve. Uh, and that’s sometimes. So when you choose the right process, it’s not that you are just scaling up your production in a linear way.

[00:21:41] You. multiplying times four times five, uh, your production capacity, you are reducing by 20% by 30% or more the production, the cost for your production of, uh, uh, produced unit. And these are, uh, elements that, uh, create such a huge competitive advantage. That sometimes one company contacts us just because they see their competitor who has already started this process of making their production more efficiently, gaining speed and, uh, acquiring more and more companies acquiring more and more lines and that they feel that they don’t understand how they can do that.

[00:22:24] But the numbers. Don’t lie. So if we have the right information, uh, from, uh, from our, from our customer, from our, from the people who contact us, we can really give a, an excellent, uh, uh, the main thing is delivering something of real value then, uh, the outcome of our conversation, it can even be well right now, the process that you have is the already the most efficient, or my solution may not be the ones that are suitable for your achieve your goals.

[00:22:54] Uh, but that is one process that just builds trust. In, in my experience in these last years, we say a lot more, no, we cannot help you. Rather than, yes, we can help you. Uh, because we really want to start a conversation with companies that can become partner that can to whom we can really deliver value, but that we need to help them understand where, uh, there.

[00:23:22] So where is their real challenge in making, uh, the production efficiently and also explain them in numbers? How much more efficient that they can get. And if you can, if we are really good at data, we can drive it down to numbers. So gain produced unit. Uh, so we, we, we can actually, uh, make an excellent, uh, job, but it’s more the job of an advisor rather than the job of a salesman in this case.

[00:23:51] Zach White: Yes. This comment of SARS, the barriers that resistance to change. Is the number one barrier, you know, back to our earlier we said, Hey, this can apply to anything. And that comment probably applies to anything as well. When we talk about really having a step function know it’s, it’s the revolution of efficiency is their book, title, not the 1% incremental gain efficiency.

[00:24:16] And I hope everybody really hears that and takes away. This isn’t just about sheet metal and roll forming, and Andrea’s business. This conversation is really about, if you want to revolutionize an area of your life, your career, or your company, you don’t get there by latching onto all the old beliefs, all the old ways.

[00:24:42] And you know, this resistance to change is the number one barrier. So Andrea, for you. You’ve been in a lot of organizations. You’ve helped a lot of people. If you see that the numbers are clear, this will work. Uh, we have a solution like this is the real problem. And, but the resistance to change is the that’s the, the barrier, the, the individuals or the decision-makers aren’t there, what’s the one or two things that, that you would do to help somebody.

[00:25:09] Overcome a personal resistance to change or just for the engineering leader, listening, you know, if they’re struggling with resistance to change, how can we improve ourselves in that area? Yeah, 

[00:25:19] Andrea Dallan: well, I have, uh, uh, I thought given a lot of thought about that and, uh, there is, uh, one thing that, uh, um, real life examples can do a lot better than me explaining how much more efficient.

[00:25:31] Uh, we can help you to think so. And these were the case studies that, uh, I asked my customers that share with them. So, uh, talking about the efficiency. Well, the first book has really been a real challenge because I asked a lot of my customers to tell me how, uh, to answer some questions about. The integration of one specific process has helped them come more profitable through the, uh, their improvement of efficiency.

[00:25:49] And they were, I didn’t expect they will do that because, uh, they are basically telling of their strategies to other possible competitors, but they were so happy to do that. And they really gave, uh, it was so old. Little stories and all of the case studies, all the calculations that they shared with me, all of the procedures that they use are for keeping their production efficient, that are really rare, uh, examples.

[00:26:16] And so I really gifts that they gave, they did to me for writing my book and that, uh, Experience of experience, uh, that, uh, uh, I don’t available to anyone who wants to read. So, and by reading what someone else in their industry is doing, uh, that is what helps them overcome the problem of facing the change.

[00:26:41] sometimes. So you don’t have to change the 100% of your activity, the result set of activities that. Uh, maybe you, you change the 20% of your activities and Uganda, you already get an increase of 80% in your performance. So this the parade, which I love so much, and I always start the analyzing. Yeah. My customers requested through the polit and that’s, I find they always find it.

[00:27:10] Clear and it’s for me confusing that nobody is studying these at school. So it’s a really incredible, but yes, so real life examples that is a lot more efficient explaining one concept or rather than showing them a, an expert table with formulas and, uh, whatsoever. Yeah, 

[00:27:34] Zach White: great principle to remember in any area, you know, go collect evidence outside the four walls of your business.

[00:27:43] And yeah, I love that, man. Andrea, there’s so many things I’d love to explore deeper, but I want to be respectful of your time and land the plane here. And you know, one of the things I. Asked, and I want to hear your perspective too, is when we’re in engineering, solving these problems, becoming more efficient, I really believe great engineering, like great coaching questions lead and the answers follow.

[00:28:13] And if we want to. Great answers in our lives. We need to ask great questions. So for the engineering leader, who’s hearing this, they’re curious about efficiency in their own life, and they want to experience success and happiness on their career journey and be a CEO one day. And what would be a great question that you would lead them with today?

[00:28:34] Andrea Dallan: Well, it is maybe something not so original, but. I think that if we constantly ask ourselves, so where we want to be five years from now, or 10 years from now, 10 years from now, uh, that is something that keeps us towards a one higher goal. And right now we are so much in involved in constant changes and, uh, uh, all the new Lucy’s always keeping us.

[00:28:55] Focused in, uh, activities in the day-to-day activity. We have to have the strength to, uh, study first of all, because, uh, so if we are just the important thing, our day-to-day activity, we will not be able to get the, the, the, the, the formation of quality that helps us see the things that from a, from a ball and.

[00:28:55] Thinking of our career and our, uh, evolution, uh, Where I want to be five years from now, 10 years from now, this is something that I always keep in mind that in order to keep track of the medium term goals and the long-term goal, 

[00:29:01] Zach White: I love that original or not. Andrea is extremely important and I appreciate you sharing that really powerful.

[00:29:08] So I hope everybody listening asks themselves today. Where do I want to be in five years and in 10 years. And I love what you said. I just want to repeat it. That it, it takes strength to not only ask and, and sit with that question long enough to get clarity on the answer or get the help and support. You need to clarify that.

[00:29:31] But then to take the action today to get what you. To get on track with that. And I think you’re super right. So Andre, I know people are going to want to explore more about who you are, the work you’re doing. Maybe someone listening actually really needs your support and their business. They would love to connect with you about that, but just tell us, you know, how can people get connected with you and learn more about you and your organization and what.

[00:29:56] Andrea Dallan: Um, well, so you can connect with me through LinkedIn. Uh, you look for umbrella land and, oh, that’s not many. So actually, and, uh, well you can find the book, uh, the revolution of efficiency in Kindle version of something electronic form. Um, and. Well, if you need any help or clarification on the concepts of efficiency, I’m here to help.

[00:30:20] I love to connect the more on the general concepts and then, uh, start the conversation with our friends, engineers. So we are big family. And then, uh, so helping one another will lead the great results for. 

[00:30:35] Zach White: Absolutely. So we’ll put links to all those places in our show notes, you know, where to find those on Oasis of courage.com.

[00:30:42] And I can’t say highly enough, you know, Andrea’s the books, the work that his organization does. And I asked a lot of the questions today, but Andrea got where he is in his career in life by being great at listening and asking questions. And he can absolutely help guide you in the right direction. So please take advantage of that.

[00:31:00] And Andrea, thanks again for making time to be with us. This has been. 

[00:31:04] Andrea Dallan: It’s my pleasure. Okay. Thank you. 

[00:33:32] Lauren Herring: Great. Thanks.