Do you know what Mountain Lions and Engineering Careers have in common?
Have you ever felt restless, discontent, or even hopeless?
In this episode, you’ll be on the edge of your seat as you meet the Founder of Men Are Forged, Cartwright Morris, a podcaster, certified coach, and thought leader for men wanting to discover and define their life’s purpose.
>> Unpack the 3Ps of your Purpose in life, and how they can help you find clarity and deeper meaning at work.
Cartwright may have been lost and hopeless in his 20’s, but he now has over 2000 hours of coaching and mentoring and has spent 10+ years managing and developing leaders at organizations like The Center For Executive Leadership, JH Ranch, and Heaven in Business in California using his own story and transformation to help change lives.
So press play and let’s chat… it’s time to escape the mouth of the lion’s den!
Then join The Happy Engineer Community online and get access to bonus content and coaching in our free group >>
The Happy Engineer Podcast
WATCH EPISODE 056: UNPACK THE 3P’S OF YOUR PURPOSE IN LIFE WITH CARTWRIGHT MORRIS
LISTEN TO EPISODE 056: UNPACK THE 3P’S OF YOUR PURPOSE IN LIFE INTERVIEW WITH ZACH’S DEBRIEF
Listen on Apple Podcasts // Spotify // Android // iHeartRadio
UNPACK THE 3P’S OF YOUR PURPOSE IN LIFE
Mountain lions, tigers and bears. Oh my… What a story from Cartwright Morris.
I cannot imagine the sudden survival mode that would kick in the intensity, the adrenaline of realizing that I was literally inside of a mountain lion’s den.
While it’s just you and me for a minute, let’s debrief on two of the concepts that came up in this conversation that I think are really important for our mindset around growth as engineering leaders.
The Arrival Mindset
This is the voice inside you that says “When I get to this particular milestone, then I will allow myself a certain particular good thing.”
- When I get this next promotion, then I will feel like I’ve really accomplished something in my career.
- When I get to this level of income, my salary and bonuses, and have this much money, then I’ll be able to relax a little bit more in my day to day life.
- When I reach a certain age, then I will stop working so many hours.
- Once I find that relationship or get married, then I will stop X, Y, Z addiction.
Well, where does that come from? What is it that causes us to fall into the arrival mindset?
I believe part of it is the culture of comparison, whether that’s social media or simply moving through the world and looking around to compare yourself to the people around you.
This culture of comparison is a big contributor to the arrival mindset. But comparison is not entirely 100% a bad thing.
Leaders with a growth mindset do want to know where they stand on the hierarchy.
If you’re a growth minded leader, you don’t hide from reality about our skill in a particular area.
If you’re not as skilled as people who are also active in this domain, as a growth minded leader, you value knowing that because it gives you a chance to honestly reflect and make decisions about your growth and development.
A fixed mindset leader, on the other hand, doesn’t actually want to know where they’re at because knowing those things creates fear and a sense of the boundary of what’s possible for their life.
So comparison in itself is not 100% a bad thing.
However, the comparison culture really does set you up for the arrival mindset, because we look around and say, “Oh, well, if so and so has had this achievement and they look so happy or they are the ones that I want to be like, then that’s my goal. And when I hit it, then I’m gonna allow myself this next _____ (good thing).”
And then there’s the idea of desire as another aspect to the arrival mindset.
That’s when we use an arrival mindset to explain why desire exists inside of me. This is when you need to be able to tell a logical story as to why you emotionally desire things.
And so we take our desires for growth and achievement, and we put a story behind it like, “I want that promotion because when I get that promotion, then ______.“
That reason creates a nice cognitive closure to why I feel this intrinsic growth desire inside of myself.
I want to challenge you to take this and recognize that growth, for the sake of growth, is enough. It’s not about, I must achieve a certain thing in order to be happy. You can be happy right now, but growth is still a part of you.
And it’s a part of what makes us happy in the moment is knowing that we’re constantly growing, but it’s not about whether or not we hit the goal today, tomorrow, next year or five years from now, it’s about the intention of continuing to grow that allows us to experience freedom from that arrival mindset.
Stress vs Anxiety
Stress is a good thing, but we want to bring the right mindset to it. Stress is necessary for growth.
Take exercise as the obvious example.
How do you strengthen the muscles of your body? It’s not by being comfortable. It’s not by sitting on the couch. It’s by putting those muscles under stress and tension. That’s what makes you stronger. Growth in your career, growth in your life demands stress.
Stress is a good thing. Without stress you’d be bored. You’d atrophy in your mind and in your life. And you wouldn’t be happy. Stress is a part of the equation of happiness.
Anxiety is a totally different thing.
Anxiety is rooted in fear. Anxiety is unhealthy.
Anxiety is that stress that has moved into worry, and into a negative thought pattern through helplessness and powerlessness. This induces cortisol and adrenaline release in your body, a really toxic duo if there’s one.
So maybe you could call it good stress and bad stress, but I like this distinction Cartwright made of stress as good, anxiety as as bad, really powerful.
And if you need help in that area, this is a great plug for you to get that help. Whether it’s reaching out to a coach, reaching out to a therapist, reaching out to someone who can support you in getting out of a place of anxiety and fear and into a place of productive stress and growth.
Hey, if you wanna talk about this more, join our new community that we’re building on. We’ve got The Happy Engineer, a private group there where you can jump in, ask questions, share your action plans as a result of the podcast, or dig more into concepts like the arrival mindset or stress versus anxiety.
I would love to see you there.
Love you all! Keep crushing it.
You’re the ones out there doing the real hard work of changing your life for the better.
And it is a pleasure and a privilege to be with you along the way.
Previous Episode 055: Ask Someone to Take a Risk on YOU with Michael Maturo
ABOUT CARTWRIGHT MORRIS
LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
- Men Are Forged Podcast
- Cartwright Morris on LinkedIn
- Cartwright Morris on Instagram
- Do you need help creating safety and taking smart risks in your engineering career? Book a FREE Career Clarity Call now!
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Please note the full transcript is 90-95% accuracy. Reference the podcast audio to confirm exact quotations.
[00:00:00] Zach White: All right. Welcome back Happy Engineers and Cartwright! So excited to have you here. I know we just met, but I love the work you’re doing. I love everything that I’ve seen about “Men are Forged” and there’s so much on my mind I wanna dig into with you, but thank you a ton for making time to be with us today.
[00:00:18] Cartwright Morris: Yeah,absolutely. Zach, I’m excited to be here, man.
Expand to Read Full Transcript
[00:00:22] Zach White: So Car, right? You’ll appreciate this, that at the time of recording, June of 2022, I am training for a five day backpacking outdoor men’s retreat excursion, totally disconnected from technology and society in let’s backpack, country of Montana with my good buddy, Carry Jack, who was on an episode, earlier on the podcast and a friend of ours from BBG, and I’m super pumped.
[00:00:50] Well, Carry sets up this pre-meeting to get us ready for the trip. And of course, one of the slides with all these entrepreneurs and businessmen who are going on this trip talks about dangerous wildlife. And on the slide was, you know, bears, moose, mountain lions. And other dangerous creatures and in my preparation for our chat today, I couldn’t help.
[00:01:13] But notice that you have a really cool story and cool may or may not be the right word about mountain lions. So would you be willing to tell us about your experience with. Mountain lots.
[00:01:27] Cartwright Morris: well, which is weird to say is I’ve actually seen two recent news articles of mountain lion attacks in this area that I’ve, been, which is crazy.
[00:01:36] you know, I, I don’t wanna ever belittle PTSD, but I feel like I experienced it for the first time when I started writing this story.
[00:01:44] Zach White: I just stage with that. Maybe I should not have asked you this because now I’m gonna be going out to Montana with pre is there such thing as like Pret, I don’t know if that’s a thing.
[00:01:54] Well, if you’re
[00:01:55] Cartwright Morris: in a good place where there’s a lot of deer, they generally don’t care about you cuz they got plenty of food. Right. Okay. Okay. Um, yeah, so I, you know, I’ve spent a good amount of time up in Northern California, beautiful country. And it’s like Northern, Northern California.
[00:02:08] We’re close to the Oregon it’s, organization I’ve been involved with called Jay ranch. And, I was out there in 2019, and heard about many mountain lion sightings actually from people I know through the organization, but I’d never had one myself. but anyway, I had a day off and, like it’s funny, most days stays off I like doing two different things, either adventure or going to a movie.
[00:02:29] Right. and so, on this day I happened to do both and I went to an early movie, up in Southern Oregon, in Medford. if anyone knows that area, Got done with a movie. And I’m like, how many times I am I in this part of the country? You know, I live in Alabama. Most of my life has been in Alabama. you know, I’m only here for the summer. I’ve got to take advantage of being in this. And so I literally just kinda looked to the west, go west young man, and then just saw mountains and I went just looked up just real quick on Google, a trail in, or, you know, near Medford, Oregon.
[00:03:04] All I did got in my, my rental car, found the road back up in there, and it like literally transitioned from paved asphalt, two lane to then all of a sudden, like one lane. And then all of a sudden dirt, like with cliffs off the side. but I found the Trailhead no phone service. And it was like, and it was thick.
[00:03:27] Terrain like darker the moon kind of type canvas. but just beautiful. Just peaceful. I think I saw maybe two people the whole time on this trail. Well, anyway, in my very excited, desire for adventure, right? I kind of glanced at what the trail length was if anyone who’s, you know, Can calculate quickly their own, capacity.
[00:03:52] How long, how many miles is a hike in general in this type of terrain? So I saw five miles. I’m like that’s easy afternoon hike problem quick. Well, you know, literally did I find out, Couple hours into this hike. That, that, that was one way. so, so it’s, it’s, it’s it’s 10 miles round trip.
[00:04:12] So I it’s like this long hike It actually connects to the Pacific crest trail. If anybody knows, that’s the one that runs from Mexico to Canada. Wow. And, but then it, it cuts off and it goes on this Ridge up to a peak, this beautiful peak, in Oregon.
[00:04:29] Cartwright Morris: And you could actually see Mount Shasta, which is in California. another 14 footer, beautiful snowcap mountain, even in the summers. And. But anyway, so I, do this, it’s a beautiful view. I had a blast. my water’s getting low, of course, you know, cause I only packed a you know, now gene for a five mile hike.
[00:04:49] Right. and I’m kind of thinking, well, how can I cut off? Like I said, it goes like this, like a seven, like a wards seven. Right. And so I’m like, I could feel the criticism in my head. I could feel somebody like shaming when I do this. It’s like, cause you don’t go off trail, leave no traces.
[00:05:03] Right. And there’s a reason why we don’t because right. If we, people went wherever we wanted, we wouldn’t have the beautiful train that I like to. And I’m sure Zach, you like to hike in, right?
[00:05:15] Zach White: oh man. Okay. Well, let’s pause for one second because this, this is a beautiful stage setting intro. Here you are packed for half the distance you actually need to cover.
[00:05:27] Mm-hmm . water, slow, beautiful scenery. Like how much gear are we talking? just, did you have a pack with you? Anything or you some food snacks, anything at all? Or is it just you and an algae bottle? Like tell us a little bit more what
[00:05:39] Cartwright Morris: you got. So yeah, I had a backpack probably with a note pad.
[00:05:44] Cause I love to journal on hypes. Right.
[00:05:46] Zach White: Great. For survival. The
[00:05:47] Cartwright Morris: notepad really important. Exactly. and yeah, probably protein bar or something, Okay. I love
[00:05:53] Zach White: this. So, so getting late in the afternoon, you, your invincibility journal and protein bar are now gonna take a shortcut to get home.
[00:06:03] Okay. Right. Keep going.
[00:06:05] Cartwright Morris: Cause I know I’m like deep, I’ve got an amazing center direction. Of course. Right. Just patting myself on the back. I’m gonna find that trail. So, yeah. And most people know this area, these mountainside have these. I wish I could remember the name of the brush and it’s literally it’s very rigid, like ankle deep, brush.
[00:06:24] And so literally I’m not walking down. I’m like hopping. To areas, basically asking for a broken ankle in the middle of the woods of Oregon. Right. I mean, so I’m not really giving myself any favors here, so I pop out eventually, to this, like I said, overhang brush, it’s really dark and there’s this little trail.
[00:06:44] And as anyone knows, that’s a, that’s a deer. I’m like these deer ain’t going anywhere crazy. I might as well follow this And then right as I did that, I had the thought of, oh no, there’s somebody else who likes to hang around deer trails for food. And I’m like, no big deal. Anyway. So I’m like, I never.
[00:07:05] Nah, not a big, never seen one and, oh man, I’m starting to, you know, I’m just, I’m back there right now. It’s like, um, I have the, that thought my like, hair stands up and I’m like, okay, it’s time to go back to find the trail. I don’t think I’m too far. I really wasn’t, but I, I kind of start working my way up back, and I’m not really going straight up.
[00:07:30] And I look up and I see kind of on the pine straw looks like two very white thing. And I think it’s like a, some type of bottle that somebody camped nearby. And that was, that kind of gave me some hope. And I looked down and there’s two hip bones of a baby. Bear. And I’m like, he just had a snack here.
[00:07:53] He just had a snack, that’s it. And I keep walking and literally I come around the corner and this is enclosed area in about, for me. 20 feet away is a pile of deer bones. and then when I say a pile, a pile there’s only one animal that eats deer like that. I immediately just, did not have a millennial moment where I wanted to take a selfie in there.
[00:08:17] Right. I was not thinking, let me, oh, let’s find an Instagram
[00:08:22] Zach White: worthy. not at all. Not at
[00:08:25] Cartwright Morris: all survival mode. Get out, find, pick up a stick in a rock and keep your head on a swivel and move fast. But don’t freak out, run, like be intentional, so don’t look like pre right.
[00:08:37] Well, thankfully I come about 50 feet, 50 yards out of that kind of look keeping, and I see a rock perched up and I go and climb up to that rock and see the trail that I had climbed up. And I’m like, thank you, Lord. All right, let’s get back. And. And thankfully that is the climax of the story and nothing else.
[00:08:58] Like I didn’t have to fight my way out. And literally that’s what I think about what did I just get away with, I finished the hike, had to hike back down for another hour. And I felt the entire time, like I was being watched, which could have been psychological or a little, could have been that mountain lion sitting there figuring out whether allows food or not.
[00:09:18] Wow. So yeah. Deep, deep breath. Yeah. So, um, anyway. It’s a beautiful country though. it sometimes, you know, ventured is when everything’s, doesn’t work out like you planned, right? Yes. It’s not this, like on the tracks ride. so now I have a story tell, but, I learned a lot
[00:09:36] Zach White: from that.
[00:09:37] Yeah. No doubt car, right? First of all, thanks for sharing. And that’s such a. an impactful story. I mean, literally in the, mouth of the lion’s den, that’s intense. And I think it’s a perfect place as much as I wanna keep exploring that situation with you. Mm-hmm to transition into where you are in life and what you do with your work at men are forged and the men are forged podcast.
[00:10:01] And the fact that adventure has some inherent risk and things, don’t always go the. We want it to go. So would you maybe tell us, just set the stage a bit about the work that you do and what is, the idea behind men are forged?
[00:10:19] I’ve been in my mid twenties, you know, restless discontent, but overall just really hopeless.
[00:10:27] trying to figure out where I’m going, what, what do I want to do? And that’s kind of where I started men. Fors is really like, young man that’s been told, Hey, just do what you’re supposed to do and it’ll work out for you. And that’s not how life works. Life is not this linear path.
[00:10:46] At the end of the day, men aren’t just structured and put together through, you know, positions we’ve been given. We are forged by life. That really like our story is super valuable. And when we’re willing to look at our story and value our story, we can really find that hope. That is, that ends up driving us to better and greater things.
[00:11:08] Cartwright Morris: And we’ve become the man that we’ve actually admired. as young men, like even teenagers, we admire these men, we look up to and we think, oh, I just gotta do the steps and I’ll get there. When really we, we don’t wanna look at the actual thing that these men we look up to and admire are the ones who actually looked at their pain and learn from it.
[00:11:29] Who valued the things that didn’t just work out like they were supposed to and go, all right, how can I get better? How can I grow? How can I embrace the discomfort and value the humbling moment and turn. And, and yet it’s kind of really lot of the men I coach are in that transition phase of their life.
[00:11:48] whether it’s switching jobs, switching careers, moving from college to adult life, or just, you know, Still living at home, trying to figure out who they are and where they’re going. Sure. So
[00:11:59] Zach White: Kurt Ray real quick as a, call it a sidebar before we get into the work here, the happy engineer podcast, we have men and women who listen and if a.
[00:12:10] female engineering leader is listening and is maybe tempted to check out or say, oh, this is for, you know, young men or for men, what would be a mindset or, or what would you suggest somebody put on as far as a lens to approach this conversation? If you are a female listening,
[00:12:26] Cartwright Morris: huh? yeah. Well, I mean, I, I am, I’m one of those big believers in, you know, you want to build a bridge, start on your side. Hmm. I can only serve from my own experience. So therefore, I, I don’t like the mansplain.
[00:12:41] Maybe that’s what I’m trying to do. but if I’m like, I’m focusing on my, what I know, right. I think people that swim across and, try to tell people what they’re doing and have no idea about their experience, but The mindset I come from is I have experienced this and therefore.
[00:12:57] Through my pain and understanding my pain. I don’t know, understand a lot of the pain of a, a young woman has gone through. And therefore, I, I speak from
[00:13:06] Zach White: that. Yeah. I really respect that. I appreciate that a lot. And I think, maybe as an opportunity to get a lens into. Cartright story and, the pain and how that affected him.
[00:13:16] maybe, you know, someone, or maybe there’s parts that you can take on and, understand deeper yourself. I appreciate that. It’s just something I like to get curious about anytime I’m listening to another podcast and like your podcast, which is tremendous, I think everybody should go listen to men are forged, you know, how can I put myself in the right posture and the right mindset to get the most from it?
[00:13:35] Zach White: So you mentioned being restless in your mid twentie. And I think that word is really gonna resonate for a lot of people out there. Yeah. can you describe for yourself anything you remember about what triggered or what, pulled you into that place? Or do you think that’s something just, everybody goes through it’s normal, it’s natural.
[00:13:55] Like what happened that led you to a place of, restless, discontent in life?
[00:14:01] I didn’t make my journey, my own. I was trying to reproduce, what I thought others wanted of me. I was probably trying to maintain in an image, an idea of something versus making it specific to me.
[00:14:17] this is why I really hit on. Defining your purpose in life, that’s what I do in my coaching. because there’s something about me that I have been made. I have been structured. I have been designed that is unique to me. And when I desire that pursuit. Above what I think the cultures has told me what I think my community has told me or what even my parents.
[00:14:42] I think that can be a lot, even more, the most subconscious of a lot of men I meet with they’re just living up to what that’s been done before them and what they think they want. I have wasted many, many years trying to live my life through the eyes of someone else.
[00:14:58] Cartwright Morris: That perception, and that is exhausting, that only leads to anxiety. Um, but then yeah, like restlessness of what the heck am I doing? I’m trying to do all these things I’m supposed to do and it’s not working out. I still feel discontent. I still feel restless. but I think those are the moments where we can actually, if we really lean into.
[00:15:19] Understand them. That’s when that’s, when it does create really powerful change. That’s what led me to here today. I think probably one of the biggest revelations I had that moment when I really was my rival mindset. Once I get here, I’ll be happy once I have this. And that’s just, that’s just death.
[00:15:39] And that’s why the, men forge is almost like a forging. It’s a constant thing. It’s a constant, we are, an author of this. I like a lot of John Eldridge. he loves to talk about the unfinished mindset. Like we need to believe that we’re unfinished and that’s a good. Hmm, but too much is men.
[00:15:57] We go like, I want to be perceived. Like I got it all together and that’s just a, that’s just, that’s like one that’s just boring. two it’s, you know? you’re only gonna lead to anxiety. You’re only gonna compare yourself to others. You’re only gonna live according to what someone else thinks and, and not
[00:16:16] Zach White: let me come back to this point because I think it’s true.
[00:16:19] And I see it in my coaching as well that we fall into the trap of. Living a life that someone else set out for us to live rather than our own authentic journey. But Cartright, I’m curious for your experience as a coach and, with the work you do, do you believe that it’s possible to come out of. The home and the household, you know, in your childhood years and your parents are nurturing you and, and raising you up and training you, and you’re learning how to integrate into culture and society around you and whatever upbringing you have, is it possible to come out of that at age 18 or maybe 22, 23?
[00:16:58] When we finished college? And not default to some paradigm or worldview that was put there by all those influences. I mean, have you ever met somebody who escapes that trap?
[00:17:12] I wanna say it’s rare. that’s why I think this message that I’m pursuing is, is so important because so many don’t right.
[00:17:20] I had amazing parents who love me and that’s not discrediting them, but they, you know, they did what they knew. and then there’s the stepping into becoming my own man. Right. And that journey, you know, it’s an interesting question. Cause do, meet people who grew up with parents that valued, and I think this, and I’m not a parent, but I imagine this is the tension they all live in is how do I be the safe place to land, but also the biggest catalyst in my child’s life for their growth and their pursuit.
[00:17:50] Cartwright Morris: Right. too much creates codependency um, small people that, can’t take on risk or challenge. And the, and this over here, it creates like too much, hard resistant, you know, we know the father that’s like kicking them out and, treating them poorly, just, you know, get a job at 12, like that kind of stuff.
[00:18:11] Right. There’s gotta be a balance. To really understanding self, and, I think what you, you talk about as well as I is like, not training behaviors, but mindsets like mindsets will take you so much farther than a good behavior. Will. Ooh, those strong mindsets and teaching them like valuing to think independently.
[00:18:34] so when you asked that question, I thought of a friend who actually interviewed on a podcast who like just sold a startup. His dad was all about like, Hey, go in the backyard and just build a Treehouse just take risks, go after it learn how to fall here so that you fall well in adulthood and just providing that safe place for your kids to fail and fail.
[00:18:55] Cartwright Morris: Well. and, uh, yeah, so I think it’s possible, but it is rare and there’s a lot of our adulthood is unlearning some things. Yeah. I would say there’s a lot of values put into me because of my parents. Some morality that’s good and beautiful, but mindsets for my overall long term success, lasting success.
[00:19:14] That’s something I had to learn in adulthood.
[00:19:16] Zach White: So you. These young men and, and I’m sure middle aged and old men, right. Somewhat of this topic is age independent. this question of defining and understanding purpose. So would you articulate a definition? What is purpose the way Cartright sees it?
[00:19:37] Cartwright Morris: I think it’s just internal driver over an external, Can we hit on that before? But it’s an internal driver that is. Driving you pulling you in a direction that is, soul fulfill. That’s probably the best way I could say it. That there’s something that’s, it, it only, you can only define from an internal perspective.
[00:20:00] that’s the thing about per like so many times, especially in our twenties, we miss, we define success on the outward, the materials career money success, right? we define it by what people have told us and we don’t find it from this internal drive of like, this is what I’m about.
[00:20:17] this is the things I want in life, and this is what I’m pursuing and I will do things that only compliment this. It creates a bigger, yes. Internally that leads to little nos along the way. That only point to a bigger, yes. Right? So
[00:20:32] Zach White: an internal force mm-hmm, driving us towards deeper and meaningful fulfillment.
[00:20:40] Not measured by external standards. Yeah. walk us through. The journey. How, how do you go from clueless as to what that is? Mm-hmm to a sense of clarity and direction to that force?
[00:20:55] I kind of have three components Of a purpose. it’s, can I call it my three PS of purpose? Right.
[00:21:01] Cartwright Morris: And the big one, I think is the kind of the central pillar of it all is pain. Are you willing to look at your pain in your life? I have a firm belief that we are all on a redemptive journey. we’re all part of a redemptive story. And our life is there’s things. Longing to be redeemed in us.
[00:21:23] Unfortunately, we do that by getting the better looking girl, the high paying job, big time position. and it’s avoidance. Of our pain. walking around it And so when we’re willing to look at our pain in our life and really understand our, our life story, what has been good, bad, and I think of pain in three ways, really it’s, failure Yeah, we are terrified of failure, right? We live our lives avoiding failure, that fear of failure. And if we’re willing to look at those failures, whether it’s relationally occupationally or, just personally, right. Um, next is traumas and those are a little harder, the big T traumas or even the little T traumas.
[00:22:00] what are the little things that happen in life that really it can help you understand why you did certain things, who you are. And then three is the hard to define, but complexity, like life is complex. People are complex and we, it’s just not gonna be perfect. It’s not, like I said, it’s not a straight line in life.
[00:22:17] Cartwright Morris: This life is not linear and we’re willing to embrace like these types of pains in our life and understand them. We can begin to really. Figure out what’s in here. What’s really, what’s the really driving thing for us. And then yeah. Which then leads to, the other two, which is
[00:22:35] Zach White: so hold on one second on this point, this is really powerful and I mm-hmm I can tell you my story.
[00:22:41] I resonate with this extremely, that pain is. Absolutely a defining part of what brought me to this point in my life. for those who know my story, it largely revolves around divorce of my parents and then myself as an adult. But car, what is the source or the, you know, that apex of pain in your journey?
[00:23:02] you know, really, it was kind of a lot of accumulation of things, but mainly like teenage years, the complexity of being a teenager, but really feeling like a failure, feeling unworthy, feeling this constant level of anxiety and shame that I was no good. Mm wasn’t. Smart enough.
[00:23:25] Cartwright Morris: I wasn’t athletic enough. Wasn’t good. Looking enough. feeling that sense of, just rejection from first girlfriend and right now you look back and that’s, oh, that’s small. That was just high school. Right. But you kind of like, man, it did, it did a number on me cuz I, dictated so much of my life on not wanting to feel that way again.
[00:23:45] that fear failure and that, feeling of rejection that I am unworthy and therefore I’m not smart. it’s kind of funny. I, I, you know, my lot of my friends now think back, I used to have a belief that I was an idiot. I wasn’t very smart. Wasn’t very articulate It’s funny, cuz now I look back and I’m like, well, all my friends got scholarships, academic scholarships to go to schools like across the us and that’s who I was surrounded by.
[00:24:12] they in a joking as guys do tease me about it, but like compared to them, of course, like I wasn’t that smart. but in, in the book context, but as I’m finding out like intelligence is so beyond just. The intellect and the book smart. It is emotional it’s, relational and developing that being such a strong part of who I am and understanding like, oh yeah.
[00:24:36] and realize I am articulate and I can do. valuable things for society. And so anyway, that’s a big part of my story early on of just the little things that added up that created this narrative in my head that was a hundred percent
[00:24:51] Zach White: wrong. I really appreciate you being vulnerable, sharing that with this cart rate.
[00:24:56] And I’ll just tell my side of that same coin. The opposite side of that coin is I was. Considered the smart guy, especially in high school and valedictorian, and I did get the academic scholarship to Purdue and that was great. for anybody listening, who might think, that’s the better side of that?
[00:25:13] Well, that also created some fixed mindset patterns in me identity, not that I’m an idiot, but an identity that I always have to be the smartest person in the room, in some cases. And I built a, a whole different set of problems in my. Based off of this idea that I am always at the top of the class.
[00:25:30] and so, you know, just maybe to build into the fact like pain can come from a lot of sources, you know? Yeah. It’s not always like I’m an idiot. Sometimes being the smart one can create a different kind of pain and I experienced experience that, but so, so pain is number one. We’re talking about the three PS of purpose.
[00:25:46] Zach White: What’s number.
[00:25:48] Cartwright Morris: Well out of pain, you know, I wanna give credit to our, our man R Vaden is that you are best served to serve the person you used to be. Right. when we understand our pain, we realize there are people like us experiencing that same thing.
[00:26:04] And I think at the core, like, when I talk about purpose, I think there always has to be a. impact and influence in a service of other people. If our purpose doesn’t have that as part of the equation, we’re just selfish, we’re just, we’re not actually having long term success or impact, right.
[00:26:22] I think people, you have to understand who are the people you’re trying to reach. And I think on this journey as I’m figuring out, like, you know, we’re not all things to all people. We’re not meant to impact everyone on the planet. we all try to want to be the rock, right.
[00:26:36] Cartwright Morris: And have, a hundred million followers, but it’s just not reality. and you’ll have greater impact when you find out who is that? One person I’m speaking to who is that small niche of people that really it’ll, not only change their behavior, but resonate internally it’ll change their lives forever. That leads to a lasting change, lasting success and in strong mindsets. So
[00:27:01] Zach White: I think that mindset you just described that if I’m able to transform the life of one person, mm-hmm versus have a really minor, incremental, slight benefit to a lot of people.
[00:27:16] There’s a. A fashion or a fetish, even around your Instagram followers and having a massive audience and impacting millions of lives. And don’t get me wrong. That is really powerful. I have found what you said though, to be true in my own experience, that every time I get in pursuit of big numbers, I actually feel emptier than if I simply come back to, how can I make the biggest impact possible.
[00:27:47] One person in a way that they will never forget So I just love that. I love what you’re saying there and kudos to Rory Vaden for this, your quote, that you are most powerfully positioned to serve the person who you once were. Yeah. And cart Ray, you’re doing that. And I’m doing, I mean, we’re both here.
[00:28:06] Our story got us to this point and no, no questions. So I love it. what about number three then? Where do we go from there? We’ve got well, it’s kinda,
[00:28:13] Cartwright Morris: and people. . it’s kind of the one that everybody thinks about when purpose, but it’s passion. Like at the end of the day, you gotta be excited about what you’re doing.
[00:28:21] You gotta get up in the morning, like, yes, this is what, how I want to reach these people. but it only, it has gotta start with the first two that really, you can really then articulate the third thing. That passion, that drive and that thing that I get up, I get, I just get jacked about, I just like I could do it for free if I could.
[00:28:39] but I think that thing that you really are like passionate about and you really desire you should be compensated for it at the end of the day, cuz you’re bringing value to people. But I, I think I always gotta start with the first two cuz when you start articulating those, then that, third thing can really, you can start articulating what that is and you can.
[00:28:57] Cartwright Morris: Um, create even a platform from it. So yeah.
[00:29:01] Zach White: Awesome. Yeah. to your point, passion gets the spotlight. A lot of times, when you think about somebody who’s purpose driven, we picture that passionate individual and maybe passion gets more air time than pain in people. And, and that might be to your point, totally backwards in terms of our discovery and what creates depth.
[00:29:20] To purpose. So can you tell us cart rate and, no need to give away any proprietary, how cart rate does it, but what does a finished, or if you can even use the word finished, may maybe just a sense of wholeness or completeness to understanding and discovering purpose. What does that actually look like for you?
[00:29:37] Is it a word? Is it a sentence? Is it a, a workbook of a lot of things written down? Is it none of the above? It’s just something like in your heart, you know what it is. Can you describe that a bit?
[00:29:48] there’s a way to articulate it in the context of like, there’s a verb.
[00:29:52] for me, it’s engaging men, specifically men in their twenties and early thirties, like engaging them in a level of. Like that there’s a verb connects to a Quip help, and then there’s an action to that. through what, like, what are you doing?
[00:30:08] Cartwright Morris: Like how, what is your action? Who is that you’re trying to engage with what, you know, so I’m, my action is engaging and then who, and then what am I doing that through? And that’s where the passion in me, I do that through, really my podcast and the way I do that is just the podcast.
[00:30:26] If you listen to my podcast is I love the story model is I love hearing other men’s stories that have gone before me and they’ve lived their life. And they’ve found purpose through like some of the things we’ve talked about, understanding pain, building mindsets, taking massive of action. that’s been a big theme in a lot of my podcasts.
[00:30:45] I do that through the podcast. I do that through one, on one coaching. and then a lot of times I’m trying to develop is just men in groups. Cause I think men in community is so valuable. I am so limited as one man. And I think when we learn from each other in a group setting, it’s powerful.
[00:31:02] Cartwright Morris: It really is. I
[00:31:03] Zach White: like that a verb in action, the who. And through as a way to think about these pieces. and of course I’ll speak highly Cartright and for anyone who’s looking to create some of that, it’s really helpful to work with a great coach in finding this and discovering this. These are difficult things to explore in isolation.
[00:31:24] If you’ve never asked these questions before Cartright for you. So men are forged. I wanted to come back to that idea. I wrote it down early in our conversation, and before we wrap today, this idea of forging. the mechanical engineer in me and, process engineers and anybody out there who’s listening, you know, forging is a, a particular type of manufacturing process for metals and this idea of shaping under compressive forces and there’s different types of forging, you know, hammering or roll, rolling, pressing different temperatures.
[00:31:53] Okay. We could geek out on what forging is in the physics sense. Yeah. But I would love to hear from you in your life as you’re embodying, the men are forg. A brand, an idea, like where are you feeling? Compressive forces in your life? These days that’s forging.
[00:32:12] Well, I just got married three months ago.
[00:32:15] Cartwright Morris: Um, period. period.
[00:32:17] Zach White: We could just stop the sentence. That’ll do it.
[00:32:20] Cartwright Morris: That’ll tell. Yeah, I mean, it you’ll be it’s shock. Shocking I’ve heard this conceptually. I’ve never actually lived it out, but living with someone every day can hold up a. Right. It really can like, all right. Wow. I can be a jerk sometimes. , you know, and you really can kind of, sort of have a better understanding of who you are and, I would say another thing that’s really big in marriage. That was something that was really taught with me in my adulthood. And I’m thankful to have great men around me is.
[00:32:49] as much in our romantic relationship, we want feelings to be the driving force. It’s gotta be actions. It’s gotta be mindsets before that. at the end of the day, I wanna love my wife unconditionally as much as I wanna be loved unconditionally.
[00:33:03] Cartwright Morris: And so how do I do that? Well, I gotta get to know her. I gotta, ask questions. I gotta apologize to write things. I gotta be intentional with my words and actions towards her, whether I feel like it or not. newly married. That’s definitely forging. and then the other thing I would say, just build my business, you know, growing my business.
[00:33:20] moving from, I worked at a nonprofit to now a for-profit where I have to bring value to people and I want to bring value to other people’s lives. So how do I articulate that? How do I create the best stuff for people? that’s a forging process. and you know, then the third thing would be so relationally occupationally, and then communally is, I’m always trying to.
[00:33:43] engage and be intentional in my community. Cause I know we need more people. I need people in my life. I need great people. I need to be challenged. I need to be molded forged. You know, what’s funny about that word is there’s, two definitions, right?
[00:33:56] Cartwright Morris: Forginglike you said, like shaping and being bolded and hammered by heat fire. There’s other one like a fors check, the intent to deceive. Wow. Fraudulent. and, you know, I could say that’s a lot, some of my story in my early life is like the desire to be in relationship, be in community, but as a false identity, the intent to put up a mask.
[00:34:21] And I think a lot’s where a lot of men are it’s like, how do we put down that mask and allow life to forge us? And then therefore, actually the true, metal is shown
[00:34:32] Zach White: man, I got chills there just in that moment because the second definition I hadn’t even considered, you know, I saw the word forge and I immediately connected to the shaping forming, the engineering definition of forging as a process hadn’t even considered forging like a check.
[00:34:52] opens up a whole nother episode that we’re gonna need to do about how, we, put out to the world a picture of ourselves that is not authentic. We’re we’re writing a check. We can’t cash in some capacity. That’s really powerful stuff, but Ugh, let’s put a pin in that, cuz I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna open up a can.
[00:35:10] Zach White: We don’t have time to,to explore the only thing I’ll add cart, rate something you said that triggered for me I think you said it well, but we often talk about stress as a negative thing in life. You know, I need to de-stress, I need to eliminate stress for my life. And in some context, that may be very true when it’s an unproductive stress or your mindset about stress.
[00:35:33] What you believe about stress is creating negative consequence in your body and mind mm-hmm , but forging as a process. will induce stress. And in that regard, if I want to be shaped and formed into something better in life, I must be willing to be under immense stress for that to happen and see it as a positive thing.
[00:35:55] And I think for me, that’s not an easy pill to swallow sometimes because stress gets such a bad rap. and not to say we should experience being stressed out all the time in the colloquial sense. But to reframe pressure as a positive aspect of what shapes my future is really powerful. I don’t know if you have anything you’d say or add to that comment, but it just stood out to me from what you described.
[00:36:21] stress means you have responsibility. it means something matters to you. I, I think anxiety is what happens when you fear what could happen, but stress means there’s something that matters to you.
[00:36:35] Cartwright Morris: You care. and therefore we sometimes need to embrace stress. It go, oh no, there’s something good happening here that I need to not try to move around it or avoid it or get rid of it. which tends to lead to addictions, Right. But go, no, I actually care. Huh. Because that’s why I’m stressed.
[00:36:57] that’s and so, yeah, I think that’s a way to like, kind of really our mindset really should focus on stress and then be aware if it does turn into anxiety, go, all right. What am I
[00:37:06] Zach White: afraid of? Ooh. All right. That’s perfect. I love it. Cart rate. You’ve put a lot of powerful things in front of us here and I’m excited.
[00:37:15] To see where you take us as we wrap up. And I believe wholeheartedly, great coaching, the work that you do, great engineering, the engineering leader out there. Who’s been listening to this have in common that questions lead answers follow. if we want to experience the forging growth towards happiness and success and fulfillment, that a deep purpose can bring, let’s ask great questions in our life.
[00:37:42] So. For the engineering leader, who’s been listening to this. What question would you lead them with today?
[00:37:49] one that always pops up in my coaching sessions is at the end of the day. What do you want? let’s really think down to three things a lot of the stress, the pain anxiety that comes with putting out fires here and there. we could get rid of a lot of that by just answering. What do I want my w life to look like? What matters to me most? Is it, my relationships is my career. Is it? is it rest? Is it exercise? if we’ve got 10 things, we don’t really have one thing.
[00:38:19] maybe I’ll just kind of articulate it to three things. what do I want life look like? And what are those three things?
[00:38:26] Zach White: Powerful cart rate. I know a lot of people out there are gonna wanna explore deeper, the work that you’re doing, and I can’t speak highly enough of the importance of purpose and being purpose driven.
[00:38:37] I’m a big believer in that as well. It’s a part of my coaching and programs, but where can people go to find more of your work and really explore deeper men are forged. And also if they wanna work with you or get to know how they can get help on.
[00:38:51] I definitely recommend checking out the podcast min are forged it’s I’m on Spotify, apple, just a lot of fun interviews with amazing people.
[00:39:00] Cartwright Morris: and then, Minner, forge.com. one of the things I, a work that I am really passionate about is I offer, Purpose driven coaching. you could type in mentor, forge.com/define your purpose. And it’s a four session just intensive about who you are and, and what do you wanna be and where you’re going.
[00:39:18] Right. So we hit on those four PS and we articulate it to you. And we kind of finish like Zach, we talked about with what’s that wording that I can keep in front of me as I go live my life and do the
[00:39:30] Zach White: things I wanna. brilliant. All those links will be in the show notes as always.
[00:39:35] So for those of you who have been following the show for a while, the happy engineer, podcast.com check out cart, rights page, and the bonus content there, and cart rate again. Just thank you so much for being here. I really do hope every engineering leader, listening to this will connect with your work and just wanna acknowledge, you know, the ladies out there too.
[00:39:54] whether it’s the men in your life or something that you can take away in understanding pain, the people, the passions of those around you, that this was, was a powerful conversation for you also, and we love you just as much, but Cartwright.
[00:40:06] Zach White: Thanks again for making time. This has been.
[00:40:08] Cartwright Morris: Yeah, thank you. Zag. It’s been a blast. you do a great job asking these questions I can’t take all the credit. You’ve helped me flesh it all out.
[00:40:15] Zach White: So I appreciate it. Been a pleasure brother. Let’s do it again. Sometime we got a big topic to explore with this two meetings of forging.
[00:40:21] So I’ll look forward to it. Me too.