088: Jim Cathcart | Top 5 Most Award-Winning Speaker in the World | the Pathway to Maximum Potential for True Professionals

[00:00:08] Zach White: Well, I’ve never seen you not smiling, Jim, so I really appreciate you. Thank you for making time for this and your generosity. It’s tremendous. Jim, right before we hit.

[00:00:18] You told me about something that it was news to me that you’ve been acclaimed in China as the world’s best, the number one in an area. Can you repeat that and just tell me, this was really 

[00:00:30] Jim Cathcart: fascinating. Yeah. They called me the number one speaking trainer, boutique agency, a bureau, a speaker’s bureau called World Master Speakers Bureau, had only 10 people.

[00:00:41] They represented Mark Victor Hansen, co-author of Chicken Soup for the Soul, who I’ve known since the 1970s. Wow. Uh, also know Jack Canfield, but Jack wasn’t in this list. Tom Hopkins, sales trainer, well-known, famous person who, by the way, this is his former desk I bought it from. No way. Yeah. We were next door neighbors a few years ago in California, and I bought his desk.

[00:01:05] I love that. When he moved. Um, let’s see. Uh,, John Gray. Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus. Mm-hmm. , uh, Jay Abraham, a marketing guru, Roger Dawson, a negotiations expert. A number of people like that. Brian Tracy, Bob Proctor. Oh, uh, so those were the, people. And, and the agent came to me, Dr. David Chu, and he said, I want you in my list.

[00:01:30] I said, you sure I fit the group? He said, yeah. He said, I’ve been watching you for years through the National Speakers Association, and I finally got it down to one of two people. Were gonna fill my empty spot. And it was you or Zig Ziegler and Zigs decided he doesn’t want to travel anymore since that time Zigs passed on.

[00:01:51] But yeah, Zig was a good friend and a, and a, hero of mine. Well, anyway, David said, everybody in my group is a top expert on something and you’re gonna be my number one expert in the world on, uh, I’m gonna call you number one, speaking trainer. I said, what is that? He said, I’m not sure, but that’s how , that’s too funny.

[00:02:14] I thought that’s hilarious, but I don’t know that I can live up to it while I ended up able to do it. I’d say 

[00:02:20] Zach White: you, you’ve more than lived up to it, Jim. And you know, we, we met first through the world’s best mastermind and how we got connected. And I was saying too, like we could put a hundred different things after World’s Best fill in the blank for, for Jim Cathcart.

[00:02:33] But maybe that’s said to your point. Okay, 3,400 and counting paid presentations according to the last bio I saw of Jim, 23 books published and more in the, in the cannon, so to speak, for four. 

[00:02:48] Jim Cathcart: All written that are waiting their turn, 

[00:02:50] Zach White: four written and okay. I’m curious. It’s easy for me to just wanna jump right to everything that you know now, but.

[00:02:59] If you go back to the early days, like when was your first paid speech, Jim, can you put us in the timeline? Are you willing to share? 

[00:03:06] Jim Cathcart: Um, well, the first paid speech I got $10. I had to drive a hundred and 120 miles. One way to do the speech, it was for a jcs chapter, junior Chamber of Commerce in 1974. Wow.

[00:03:20] And or 70. And they gave me $10 for gas. Well, today that would get you two gallons, right? Yeah. But back then that, that would fill your tank. And so I drove 120 miles. I gave a speech and then turned around and drove back home. That was my first paid. That was your first 

[00:03:38] Zach White: paid speech. Then 

[00:03:39] Jim Cathcart: what’d you talk about?

[00:03:40] Brace yourself for this? That was on leadership. Leadership for, for volunteers. but in 1976 or seven, Tulsa Junior College hired me to speak to their faculty. All of the teachers that were there at the college in their, years, their annual kickoff program, their orientation. Now, I didn’t have a college degree, so this was a big deal to me.

[00:04:09] I was getting to talk to people with college degrees who taught in a college. Yeah. People a junior college didn’t matter to me. A hundred bucks. . I thought I’d killed it man. I thought I have finally arrived. I got a hundred dollars for one speech. You know, the, the world is my oyster. Yeah. . That’s a amazing, and then I 

[00:04:31] Zach White: set a goal to get 10 x growth in three years.

[00:04:33] That’s pretty good, James. Well, yeah, . 

[00:04:35] Jim Cathcart: And then, then I set a goal to earn as much for a speech as I had earned in a month. And I did that and then to earn as much for a single speech as my dad had ever earned in a year. And I did that. and, and on and on and uh, so there’s been lots of these milestones that have allowed me to say, yeah, I’m getting there.

[00:04:55] Zach White: That’s brilliant. So tell us, what would be a speech gone wrong? Was there any moment that stands out for you where it’s like, this one, I, how long completely came off the . 

[00:05:08] Jim Cathcart: Just pick. Well, let’s talk about speaking to a group of, uh, it might have been engineers. It could have been CPAs, but I remember I was brought in for, you know, professional development, continuing education, program.

[00:05:22] And I was the featured speaker to do a three hour seminar. I had done this seminar hundreds of times, and so I knew what worked and what didn’t work with various audiences. So I came into the room and I started doing the seminar, and I, and I planned the seminar so that audience participation is, is figured into the equation.

[00:05:42] So this particular day I’m up there speaking and I’m throwing out questions and seeking audience engagement. Not happening. It is like talking to a blank wall. Oh no. And in the dark and with no sound system. And so I, I kept going and I’m looking at my clock and finally I, I stopped and I said to the audience, I said, guys, You know, I plan my speeches to be about 60% me and about 40% you, when I’m doing a seminar and I’ve held up my part.

[00:06:17] so I really need you to get engaged when I’m, giving you these assignments or whatever, . And then we took a break and then I went over to the meeting planner and I said, what’s going on? He said, I don’t know. I said, well, I’ve got about, I don’t know, another 20 minutes worth of material prepared.

[00:06:35] Jim Cathcart: I could wing it after that, but let’s don’t. And he said, no, there’s some things going on that you don’t know about, so just do the extra 20 and then we’ll adjourn. And so that was, that was awkward. Now I’ve had worse. I had one, this was for a medical college. So doctors who had been in school, you know, they graduated regular college, went straight into pre-med, and then they’re into medical college and they hadn’t had a break in years.

[00:07:06] Sure. And the typical plan is they get two weeks to go home and to be with their family and friends and breathe a little bit before they become a resident at some, right, right, right. Working hospital or university. Well, faculty decided, nah, let’s take that two weeks from them and let’s Great plan. Let’s take them.

[00:07:28] Yeah, let’s give them practice management training. So just unilaterally they do This didn’t involve the students and so I’m one of the faculty for that and I’ve. I think two or three days of, two hour seminars I was doing. And the first day I go in and it’s one of these pits, you know, where the tiered seating and, and the teacher’s way down there.

[00:07:52] so I go in there and I’m sitting down there at the side and the doctors at the front and he’s looking up at the students and they file in with a scowl on their face. Oh. And sit down like this. Oh yeah. So there’s clearly something going on and I’m not aware of it. So I’m, I’m oblivious. I’m sitting there innocently waiting to do my presentation and they’re all sitting there and angry as can be.

[00:08:14] he looks up at him and he says, you’re acting like a bunch of children. 

[00:08:20] Zach White: No, , I’m really setting you up for success, 

[00:08:23] Jim Cathcart: Jim. Yeah. This, and he’s great. he says you’re acting like a bunch of children. You might as well snap out of it.

[00:08:30] He said it’s not gonna work, you’ve gotta be here. So you might as well make the best of it. Now, we brought in a motivational speaker. Maybe he can do something with you. Here’s Jim Cathcart. That was my intro. Oh my 

[00:08:43] Zach White: word. That was the, the 

[00:08:45] Jim Cathcart: most measurable three days on the platform I ever spent. Ugh.

[00:08:50] Zach White: That’s awful. That is truly awful. I mean, what a, is there any worse way to prime you coming on stage than that? I really can’t think of one. You know 

[00:09:00] Jim Cathcart: what, I, reflecting on it, I came up with a great strategy. Of course, you think of these on the way home. I could have had a v8, right? Anyway, it’s, you’re thinking, gosh, if only if I had known what I could have done.

[00:09:14] is enlist the audiences support, let ’em know I’m on their side. Mm-hmm. . Cause the doctor just stormed out of the room and just turned it over to me and I could have stepped up and done like this and said, Uhhuh. . Yep. How many of you would be willing to contribute if I started a fund to hire somebody to take out the.

[00:09:41] Zach White: Exactly. Oh man. Well, and Jim, that that doesn’t, come without some experience. I, and for those who are just listening, they’re not gonna go watch the YouTube version cuz the way you leaned in did the look left, look right. Kind of, yeah. like that, that’s, that’s brilliant stage presence. I love it. Thank you.

[00:09:58] So, okay, this is, we’re totally random. It popped in my head as you were telling that story. Did you ever have those, the dreams that we joke about where you’re at the front of the classroom and you forgot to put your clothes on that day, or the, the embarrassing or the fear fearful? Did you ever have those kind 

[00:10:14] Jim Cathcart: of dreams?

[00:10:14] No. There, there’s one dream that was a recurring dream. I hadn’t had it in years now, but I had it easily half a dozen times over an extended period. The dream was, there was a meeting scheduled. I was the keynote speaker. , the person who was introducing me was in the process of introducing me, and I was two blocks away, down a steep hill on foot, so I wasn’t gonna be there when the introduction finished.

[00:10:42] So that was my fear. Interesting. See, one of the things I take great pride in is being truly professional in my role as a, as a, an outside expert or a professional speaker. I genuinely know who my audience is in advance. I’ve done all the study, you know, I’ve read every. Inch of their website, including the copyrights at the bottom.

[00:11:06] And the disclaimers literally, I over over prepare like that because they’re, who knows when something random’s gonna pop into my head that makes a perfect illustration and they go, how did he know that? Wow. Right. And in the old days, I would read the company’s orientation manual and their annual report, but since websites, thank you Lord

[00:11:29] You know, I get it all in advance, but I show up early. I meet my introducer, I give them a, a prepared introduction. that’s short and easy to do, and it’s not just a curriculum vita that would put ’em all to sleep. Mm-hmm. , it ends with, you know, our speakers, da, da da da da da. But there’s another side that’s more interesting.

[00:11:48] He’s also been a nightclub singer, a bartender, bill collector, insurance salesman, uh, motorcycle salesman, and an internet business owner. And then it says he may not be able to hold a job, but I understand he can really hold an audience. Let’s welcome Jim Kahar. So, uh, you know, I do things like that. But if I’ve given Zach that introduction and he’s the introducer, when he gets up to do the introduction, he might say, where did I put that?

[00:12:18] So I always have another copy of it in my pocket. and just before he gets up on the platform, I say, you need an extra copy. Thank you. I left that in my room. Oh my goodness. Brilliant. So things like that. And if the lights go out, which I’ve had happen, and if there’s a medical emergency in the audience, which I’ve had happen, if the building catches on fire and we have to evacuate, which I’ve had happen multiple times, , if the president is shot while you’re in the meeting and you hear the news, you know, someone comes in, which I’ve had happen, all of these things, you know, if, if those things happen, if it’s too hot, it’s too cold.

[00:12:56] If there’s loud noises, if, whatever, I know how to handle that. Mm-hmm. . And so I’m never rude to an audience member. I’m never outta control. Because if you’ve got the mic, you’re the guy. Yes. Yes. You know, if the place catches on fire, who else can evacuate them more efficiently than you?

[00:13:15] Zach White: This is so interesting, Jim, because the spirit of professionalism, the, the mindset of being a professional, I, I don’t wanna judge too harshly, but I feel like it’s different or more rare to have somebody who takes their profession as seriously as what you just described today as, and maybe I’m wrong, maybe it’s always been rare, I’m thinking back to my engineering days, you know, when I was in my career and no one came alongside me and described what it really meant to be a professional.

[00:13:45] The way that you just articulated that in your zone of genius. So how would you articulate, what does it mean to be a professional? What is the mindset of a true 

[00:13:55] Jim Cathcart: professional? You’re walking into my wheelhouse. A professional. 

[00:13:59] They’re five qualifiers a professional is highly educated for what they do. , their education’s considered never ending. So it’s lifelong education renewed constantly. Right? it’s done for pay. Okay. It’s done according to a set of ethical standards. Hmm. And it’s done as a service to the recipient. Okay?

[00:14:22] So those are the five qualifiers. Now, one of the things I do is I will send to a, client in advance of the meeting where I’m gonna be their presenter, a document that says My service commitment. And then it says, here’s what I will do when I’m a speaker for you. And then it’s broken into categories In preparation.

[00:14:45] You know, I will da, da, da, da da, and I’ll know what you do and why you do it, and why it’s valuable to your clients. and I’ll do this, this, this, and this, upon departure from my home city. This is what I’ll do, notifying you upon arrival in yours. This is what I’ll do, before the meeting on site.

[00:15:03] This is what I’ll do during the meeting. You know, as I start and throughout and so forth. This is what I’ll do after it’s over. This is what I’ll do, including if they’re reimbursing expenses. I will send them a summary of my expenses with receipts if required and send it promptly. And then here’s what I will not do.

[00:15:23] I will not turn my presentation into a sales pitch. I will not run overtime. I will not, insult either directly or indirectly any of the other people involved, including the audience. I will, stick to my timeframe. I will never use off-color, humor, or language. and it goes on like that.

[00:15:46] Yeah, but I, in writing in advance, 

[00:15:49] Zach White: This is good. Okay. Here’s what I’m noticing versus the mindset or the culture of engineering that I was in. You’re saying proactively, here’s what you can expect from me as a professional, what I will do and what I will not do, and you can count on this and I follow through.

[00:16:09] Yeah. The posture that I was in as a young engineer. , what do you want me to do, ? Yeah. What do you, what is it that you want of me? And then I’ll do my best to meet that standards react instead of proactive. Yeah. And I don’t think there’s very many people I talk to who go into their career with that same level of professionalism saying, here’s exactly what you can expect of me that I will do and will not do.

[00:16:35] Well said. Um, I think everybody could take a huge lesson from that to ask yourself, who are you as a professional, and where do you need to step up to 

[00:16:45] Jim Cathcart: that standard? And, and on the dark side of that, a lot of people, immature people, they’ll be doing a, a business communication and they’ll make it very cold and impersonal and only about money and things and not mm-hmm.

[00:16:58] not about two people trusting each other to achieve the desired outcome. and you say, well, you know, that’s just cold. Well, I’m just trying to be professional. No, you’re trying to be impersonal. Oof. And that’s different. See, professional in the word itself, it contains part of its definition.

[00:17:16] You profess in other words, sort of pledge or express or state boldly that you believe in and will live up to a certain set of standards. You profess that’s to be a professional. Right. Oof. that pretty much says it, it’s kinda like taking the pledge, right? 

[00:17:37] Zach White: Yeah. I love that. the proactive nature of it.

[00:17:41] the professing. That’s huge. So in your list of 

[00:17:45] Jim Cathcart: five things and service. Yeah. 

[00:17:46] Zach White: Perfect. So I was just gonna ask you listed your five qualities mm-hmm. and inherent to really all of these. But you know, I think about education and an ongoing commitment to mastery and education and then provided as a service.

[00:18:00] it really steps into a zone of of work that you’re so well known for in how do I grow fast, reach my full potential, accelerate my performance within my profession? Yeah. talk to us about your journey and that and how you’ve, what have you discovered what is true about human nature, human performance, and this journey of growth and mastery?

[00:18:25] Yes. As 

[00:18:25] Jim Cathcart: a professional, ev, every person has within them the potential to make a profound difference in something. Something. Uh, when I was speaking in China, I, from 2015 to 2019, I spoke on 19 separate lecture tours, from the US to China and back during those five years, I went to 23 major cities and did hundreds of, of, well, I don’t know, maybe a hundred lectures while I was over there, but to hundreds of thousands of people.

[00:18:56] Wow. And I would do four to six hours through an interpreter in each day. So I’m standing in front of a sea of humanity and speaking. They’re all Mandarin speakers and I’m English only. So I’ve got Kitty, my translator here, and I have to pause after every paragraph and wait for her to translate and then I go on.

[00:19:19] So I did, did that again and again. At first it was very awkward, and then I got pretty good at it and got comfortable with it. But what I found was though I was hired to speak on the usual subjects, leadership, communication, sales, you interpersonal communication, public speaking, goal setting, strategic thinking.

[00:19:39] What they responded best to was how to live a meaningful and satisfying life. Cause no one in their entire culture ever brought that up. It was either religion or work. and religion was ritual and work was duty. Mm-hmm. And Joy was not on the menu. Right. As a matter of fact, Dennis Waitley, my colleague, who wrote a book called The Psychology of Winning, been a good friend for years.

[00:20:13] He wrote a book called The Joy of Work, and it got pirated and became a bestseller in China. And someone called him and said, Hey, you’ve got a bestseller in China, . He said, I did. They never paid me, but . Oh my goodness. The joy of work. Well, I was talking about the satisfaction of being alive. Yeah. And I, as you know, I wrote a book called The Acorn Principle.

[00:20:39] Yes. So if you take a look at an acorn, and I’ve got a very large example of one here. it has three parts. . So I would talk to the audience about this, and I would say this is the seed of the most common tree in America, the oak tree. an acorn has three parts of stem that it connects it to the tree, a cap that holds onto the seed, and the seed that holds the future trees that will come from it.

[00:21:03] Okay? That in your life would be your past, your present, and your future. Hmm. So the stem is your connection to all the ancestors back through the ages. You carry the imprint from them. Yes. You, you are the, the recipient of a legacy and an op obligation to continue that legacy. The cap represents your coaches, your guides, your parents, your mentors, your employers, your role models, your heroes, and they hang on to you until you’re ready to grow on your own.

[00:21:36] And the seed inside you represents the potential that still lives in you and the potential. That will be felt down through the ages, through trees and stems and caps and seeds for all eternity. You make a difference whether you try to or not. Now, you can make a positive difference, no difference or a negative difference.

[00:22:04] So you can leave things as they were when you found them and just pass along, or you can make things better or make things worse, but you can’t avoid influencing. So why not influence for the good? And then I would tell ’em story after story of simple day-to-day things people could do to make their world a better place without more education, without money, without freedom, without government approval.

[00:22:32] In absolutely advance. Yeah, this 

[00:22:34] Zach White: is a concept that. It shows up in the coaching that I do with engineering leaders. Jim and I, I assume you’re gonna agree with this, but correct me if you don’t, if you don’t possess that belief foundationally, that you can make a difference, that you have infinite worth to bring, not just in this life, but in, you know, the generations to come.

[00:22:55] That yeah, you are that acorn. And actually I have, the acorn print support here in my hand. Oh, thank you. Because this is my favorite book that, that I’ve read of yours. Thank you and highly recommend every, engineer get a copy and read this. But I’m thinking I scanned it yesterday again to, get prepped for our conversation.

[00:23:11] The last chapter title comes to mind in this topic. It’s the future you see defines the person you. , and I have a similar phrase that I use in my talks where I talk about your perspective in the present pours the foundation of your future. And I talk about the fact it’s a very engineering statement. I like that.

[00:23:31] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So same concept, just language for my Yeah. Engineering crowd. 

[00:23:35] Jim Cathcart: So the, the way you see yourself determines how much of the future you’re gonna prepare for, not how much you’re gonna be able to, achieve, but how much you see your expectations determine how ready you get. Mm. So if you expect the bus is coming, you’ll go to the bus stop and you’ll get some change.

[00:23:56] So you can buy a ticket if, if you don’t expect a bus is coming, you’ll stay home or you’ll walk or something. So if you expect that the trip you’re taking will involve a formal gala that you have to attend, you’ll pack formal clothing. Otherwise, business casual’s gonna get you by just fine. . And if it’s a two week vacation at a place that’s inexpensive, you may not even pack, Hey, I’ll buy a t-shirt when I get there.

[00:24:24] Right. So what you expect determines what you get ready for. So I say expand your expectations. Yes. Expect more than you ever have before in your life. just throw your expectations over the fence and then figure out how to climb over there to get to ’em, right? 

[00:24:41] Zach White: Yeah. Oh, that’s beautiful. So, you know, I’m, I’m an engineer, Jim and I.

[00:24:47] Tools and systems. Yeah. So if I was to take that principle, one of the many pieces of the Acorn principle and say, I, I wanna do that, Jim. I wanna take my expectations that I have today, expand them, stretch them, and just go after it like crazy. Where would someone begin? Is there a way that you would encourage me to, like, here’s what you should do.

[00:25:09] Is it sit down? Is it journal? Is it meditate on these things? Like, is it, go look at a, a role model, like Jim Cath card and say, I wanna do what he’s done. Like Got it. Wh where do you go to start that 

[00:25:19] Jim Cathcart: process? Well, I wrote a book ostensibly for my grandchildren, uh, that I wrote a book that I published. But the thinking behind it was, if I were to write a manual on how to live a, a satisfying and meaningful life for my grandkids and, and their kids, uh, what would it be?

[00:25:38] Here’s what I wrote. I wrote a book called The Power Minute. And the power Minute is 336. One minute ideas. Each one takes literally only one minute to read it aloud. 336, 1 minute ideas on how to live a satisfying and and successful life. Well, why 3 36? Because I had written 365 and about 30 of ’em were kinda lame and obvious , so I eliminated them when I did the book.

[00:26:19] Oh, it’s beautiful. They had been radio, radio clips, one minute, radio clips. So that’s how I know they’re one minute Amazing. And uh, it’s every subject you can imagine. Mental, physical, family, social, spiritual, career, financial, emotional, you know, across the board. Yes. And in this book I start with in chapter one, the question now what is the question in life?

[00:26:43] Just a second. Let me flip to it.

[00:26:46] Zach White: What, what do you want? Do you want Hmm. Yep. 

[00:26:52] Jim Cathcart: No matter where you go, no matter what circumstances you’re in, that’s the primary question. And when you’re not clear on that, nothing else works yet. Hmm. But when you’re, you’re crystal clear, everything finds a path. Yeah. 

[00:27:08] Zach White: I love that. And so you’ve spoken all around the world.

[00:27:11] I’m curious, does there literally any, yeah. Any cultural or, Geographic distinctions on how that question shows up? Or would you say truly Yeah. Human nature, universal everywhere 

[00:27:22] Jim Cathcart: I go? Well, I think it’s a universal truth, that you’ve gotta have clarity on what you want. Uh, in the book, think and Grow Rich, the most famous motivational book ever, Napoleon Hill, The secret to all of the rest of it was definiteness of purpose.

[00:27:39] Absolute focused clarity on what you want. I mean, if, even in spiritual realm, if you’re praying, you know, it’s, it’s nice to pray generic prayers, you know, Lord, make this a good day. No, you make it a good day. I gave you the tools, you know, but . But the other day I was, I was going to a movie with my wife in a crowded shopping center, and I dropped her off near the door of the movie theater.

[00:28:08] And then I circled around to see if I could find a parking place near the theater. And as I was driving down that, aisle, I said, Lord, would you please find me a parking place near the theater? And a car backed out right next to the. , I mean that instant before I finished my sentence, the car backed out at the exact best spot available in the whole shopping center, and I pulled in.

[00:28:33] Oh my gosh. Well, I mean, that’s kind of a woowoo idea, but let’s, let’s get more practical Robert Schuler, many years ago, the preacher from Garden Grove, California wanted to build a church and he needed a big space and he didn’t have money. So he thought, well, how do I get a big space and, and build my church without needing money?

[00:28:56] At first, he found an empty drive-in theater. no longer in use. Okay. And he got permission to go to that empty drive-in theater lot and have people come in in their automobiles and put the little sound system in the window of the, of the car. And he would stand on top of the concession stand and deliver his sermons through a speaker system.

[00:29:21] And then he raised enough money that he envisioned what he thought was the ultimate cathedral one that was made primarily of glass, called the Crystal Cathedral. And it cost millions upon millions of dollars. But he sold virtually every pane of glass to an individual and built that church. And it survived for, for his lifetime.

[00:29:44] I mean, it was an amazing ministry. Years ago I was in, Detroit, and I was admiring the Renaissance Center downtown. Sure, yeah. And it was built by John Portman, who also built the Peachtree Plaza in, in, uh, Atlanta and some others. so I read an article about Portman and someone said of this, great architect, they said, what’s your proudest accomplishment?

[00:30:09] He said, the people I’ve built. Hmm. Isn’t that amazing? Yeah, that’s so good. But it all starts with what are you, what do you think you’re up to? Well, he was up to growing, not just a, collection of buildings around the world, but standards, new standards for excellent arch. and he needed a team of people that thought and dreamed like he did because when he got clear on what he wanted, the next question was, who can help?

[00:30:41] Yes. You know, what skills do you need? Yes. And so he got others to buy into the dream. 

[00:30:47] Zach White: That makes me think of the Dan Sullivan book, who Not How. Yes. Which as an engineering leader, one of my biggest shifts to creating success was getting out of that idea that, first, okay. Re recap our conversation here.

[00:31:02] It’s that belief that I have incredible potential that I wanna lean into. It’s clarity on what I want. But the very next thing I would ask was, how will I then get it? Yeah. And, and the how question focused inward was my approach as an engineer for a long, long time. And now shifting that to say, okay, what do I want?

[00:31:24] Create the clarity. Who can help me get there? Who has already solved that problem? Who can show me the way, who can coach me, who can mentor me? Well, 

[00:31:34] Jim Cathcart: that’s a huge, well, gimme one more dimension to that. And you’re absolutely right. I met, I first met Dan back in Dan Sullivan, uh, in the 1980s when he was just starting his business as a, as a coach and a mentor, brilliant guy.

[00:31:49] The other dimension is this, if you look at the acorn, what’s it capable of? if this were real instead of a, you know, a model acorn, if this were real, what, how much potential lives in that one acorn? 

[00:32:06] Zach White: That’s an interesting question because on the one hand, you could say over time, if you plant it, you know, nurture it, water it, and it grows into an oak tree, and then it produces.

[00:32:17] I, I don’t how many acorns. Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, I was gonna say tens of thousands, so, okay. Another million acorns. And each one of those can do the same. It’s truly exponential and infinite in that regard. But on the other hand, if you don’t plant it, it’s, it could 

[00:32:30] Jim Cathcart: forest the entire earth. Yeah. Wow.

[00:32:32] One acorn over time could forest the entire earth. Okay. So people say, yeah, but I’m not that big of a deal personally. Well, if you want something, and I, I don’t mean, you know, I want a nicer house. I want, you know, I want to be happy, healthy, and have plenty of money. I have good relationships. Everybody wants that.

[00:32:54] That’s, that’s a state of being that all living creatures desire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In, in one form or another. So that’s not a want. A want is when that gets focused, when it gets specific. If you’ve got a want inside of you, that is life looking for an outlet. See, life exists everywhere. Life is, life is infinite and life is omnipresent.

[00:33:19] So there’s life in everything. There’s life in the air. There’s life in the water. Yes, there’s life, you know, all around us. So you say, well, there’s no life in Iraq. Yes, there is. Those minerals contain, you know, life nutrients and, and they’re part of the ecosystem. So life needs outlets, it needs people, it needs puppies, it needs trees, it needs whatever it needs outlets.

[00:33:44] this is getting a little, uh, metaphysical, but I believe it. If you feel a strong, want a dream for something to be a reality, that means the potential for that happening is seeking expression through you. Yes. So give it a better door. How. Well, first off, accept the possibility that it could happen.

[00:34:12] Jim Cathcart: Like the old Judy Tenuta comedy routine. She says, just yesterday I was with, um, you know, and she named some famous person and the audience laughs and she says it could happen. You know, well, well, it could happen. Whatever your dream is. It’s possible it could happen. Yes, yes. Meaning if all the lights turn green when you approached each intersection, the possibilities exist.

[00:34:37] It could happen. Okay? What would inhibit it? You being a jerk. You thinking too small and denying the possibilities. You, ignoring your opportunities and not testing ’em out and, and trying to explore them. Um, you trying to do it all by yourself and, assuming that you have to be solo in order to be strong.

[00:34:59] No, you double your strength the minute you ask somebody else for help. . So think of yes, you know, multiplying yourself through others in everything that you do, in every appropriate way. Don’t be needy, be generous, and be mm-hmm. , eager to connect with others. Um, but the possibilities are there. Now, what do you need to know?

[00:35:21] Who do you need to know? How do you, you know, et cetera. I, I’d build a, what I call a continuum, a, a causation, ladder or causation chain. in a seminar. I’ll explain that the way you think right now about yourself, your company, your customer, your business. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. that leads to the actions you take currently.

[00:35:44] The, the pattern of actions that you take currently are your habits. Yes. Okay. So if you change some of the actions, the habits evolve. , not immediately, but they evolve. Okay. So if you change your thinking, it changes your actions. Your actions become your habits and your habits when observed are your reputation.

[00:36:06] Okay? And you always have a reputation. Your reputation may be the guy, I don’t know over there, that’s your reputation at first, or the guy with the nice looking suit, or the guy who seems like he’s angry or the depressed looking person on the other side of that door. You know, whatever. It happens, you got a reputation.

[00:36:27] That’s a whisper of a reputation at first. But over time, the more observation is done, the more that reputation solidifies, and that’s your brand in the world. That’s the way you’re known. Oh, he’s a great doctor. She’s a great doctor, but bedside manner sucks. You don’t want to be their patient. . Yeah, yeah.

[00:36:48] You know, unless it’s life and death. . Well, there’s no excuse for that. I mean, you can make a case, but it’s not excusable. It’s mm-hmm. , it’s unnecessary and inappropriate. You can be a good person and a highly, highly, highly skilled professional. Right? Yeah. And then, so it goes from mindset to actions, to habits, to reputation, which determine which relationships open and which ones shut.

[00:37:17] Okay? So based on your reputation, I will either welcome you in or shut you out. So, what reputation do I need to open the doors to the big, big rooms so I can connect with the people that can change my world with a flick of a pen, right? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And your relationships determine the size of the future you can achieve.

[00:37:40] Zach White: This is an awesome picture, and I know I’m drawing it in my mind. Yeah. And I, I’ve won, I’m gonna Dr. Come back and re-listen to this and draw 

[00:37:48] Jim Cathcart: it on paper. And you can also navigate it in the opposite direction, right? You, you sit and fantasize about the craziest, wildest, most wonderful future that could possibly exist.

[00:37:58] And then ask yourself, who would I need to not only know, but be a, be respected by Yes. In order to, to get that future. Well, maybe it’s people like Walt Disney, you know, the, the, or, you know, the equivalent of a Walt Disney or somebody like, like, uh, the president of Apple or, or Jeff Bezos, or, sure, yeah, exactly.

[00:38:22] Tim Cook, Tim Cook, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, whoever. You know, I would need these people to say, Hey Jim, come on over to the house. We’re brainstorming. Right? Um, so if that’s a relationship that you would like to have, what kind of reputation do you need to deserve? Mm-hmm. , he would mm-hmm. . in order to open those doors.

[00:38:45] Well, how do you get that habits? Which habits? Okay. Which, what actions would lead to those? Yes. And how should I be thinking today in order to make all that happen? 

[00:38:56] Zach White: I love that thinking is the starting point, and that you’ve mentioned reverse engineering this. Yeah. Because so many of my clients who, maybe they’re a manager, senior manager of engineering now get really stuck on for one clarity of what they actually want.

[00:39:13] So they haven’t pictured that room they wanna walk into. Yeah. But this is a great way to then, go out there, turn around, look back. Jim, I am curious, as you described that getting clarity on what you want, moving toward it, one thing that I hear a lot from people is, well, I, I hit my goal that I had and, and kind of the now what question mm-hmm.

[00:39:38] and I’m just curious for you. , do you kind of approach this journey as a vision by vision, goal by goal where you hit one and then set the next? Or are you the kind of person who’s constantly getting out ahead and even as you’re moving rapidly towards the goal that’s in front of you today, you’ve already set that next level of the vision, or, or how do you, how do you think about that?

[00:40:02] Jim Cathcart: It’s a little bit of both. Okay. And, and that’s of course necessary of macro and micro, but In 1972 when I was just a government clerk, got a, the housing authority in Little Rock, Arkansas, I didn’t know what I wanted to do when I grew up, even though I was married and had a baby at home and you know, had a job, but I didn’t have a college degree.

[00:40:23] I was overweight outta shape. didn’t have any credentials or connections, you know, there was no asset that I was aware I could leverage at that time. And so I expected a very ordinary, unremarkable life. And then heard an inspiring broadcast on the radio. Like some will hear this, this podcast. And, uh, it was her old Nightingale, the motivational Oh wow.

[00:40:47] Commentator. And he was on 900 stations around the world. And he said, if you’ll spend one extra hour every day studying your chosen field in five years or less, that’s 1,250 hours in five years or less, you will be a national expert in that field. And I thought, Well, the math works. How can I apply that to me?

[00:41:08] What do I want? I didn’t know. And a few weeks later, I decided I wanna do what he’s doing, but I didn’t know what he was doing, and I had nothing valuable to say, and I’d never given a speech. So, that speaking career was hardly on the menu. Well, now I’m one of the most awarded professional speakers on earth, and oh my gosh, how did I do that?

[00:41:31] Well, I, chose in the first place not to become a speaker. I chose to become a, a leading expert. Yes. On the subject of personal growth, self-improvement, human development’s, another way to say it. Or applied behavioral science. Mm-hmm. , if you want to get sticky about it. I decided that’s what I wanted to become an expert at, but I wanted to be not just local expert.

[00:41:56] I wanted to be a leading quotable authority, at the big kids table. so I just took him at his word and said, an hour a day of fanatical study that ought to do the job. And over a two year period, gosh, I don’t know how many hours I devoted, but I know that I went to 400 meetings of the jcs Junior Chamber of Commerce for the purpose of learning leadership.

[00:42:23] because the jcs is a civic club that at that time had a third of a billion members, 356,000, no, third of a million members, excuse me. 356,000 members and I joined in order to learn goal setting systems. Yes. Yeah. how to run meetings, how to organize projects, motivate volunteers, how to get things done, ground level leadership, and 400 meetings in two years, you get pretty good at that.

[00:42:51] But all the time I was doing those meetings, I was listening to recordings on cassettes of Earl Nightingale every single day phonetically, and it transformed my mindset. Yes, which transformed my actions, which showed up in my habits, which got me a great reputation. I got promotions and new opportunities and, you know, finally I was hired by the national headquarters of the jcs to be in charge of the, of leadership training programs for all 356,000 members.

[00:43:24] And I was flying all over the country. And then I left after a couple of years and started my own business, which I’m still doing today. Yeah. And you know, all those things I dreamed about the rest 

[00:43:36] Zach White: now. Multiple Hall of Fame awards and, and we could go on and on 

[00:43:39] Jim Cathcart: and on. And one more what, just to put a real bow on that, now, I heard Earl Nightingale on the radio when I was a loser.

[00:43:47] You know, a likable loser government clerk, taking 500 bucks a month in Little Rock. That was 1972. In 1974, I started selling Earl Nightingale’s recordings to businesses, door to door in Little Rock, Arkansas. 10 years later, I’m a full-time speaker and trainer. I’ve moved to California, living in La Jolla, near the beach Partners with, uh, college professor Dr.

[00:44:12] Tony Alessandra, and the phone rings and it’s Earl Nightingale calling me out of the blue, calling me, and he says, Mr. Cathcart, I read an article of yours. That would be a good audio program.

[00:44:25] I sent it to him and his company published that audio program in 1984 and sold three and a half million dollars worth in two years. I went from nobody to wo known around the world in my niche in a two year period, and years later when I was president of the National Speakers Association, Earl Nightingale passed away and we held his memorial service at my convention, and his widow and I were the only speakers on the program.

[00:44:58] Zach White: That’s amazing. Jim. Thanks for sharing that. And You’re welcome. I’m so encouraged by this for a dozen reasons, but for one, so often success seems. like it’s gonna require your entire life dedicating, you know, 10 extra hours a day, working nonstop, burning yourself out, this kind of stuff. Going to school for 20 years, first writing culture.

[00:45:20] Yeah. You know, 20 degrees and all this. Yeah. And just to hear you say, look, I made a decision on what I wanted. I set hall of fame vision in an area of human development that mattered to me, and in an hour a day just focused on developing myself, changing my thinking. The rest is history. And that as an engineer, It’s, it’s hard to wrap our heads around sometimes because we want so much to see the whole journey.

[00:45:50] Like why equals F of X, Jim, I wanna know the whole system. You know, if I can’t connect all the dots today, it’s hard for me to get behind it. And so I’m just so encouraged, you know, both the journey I’m on here with oasis of courage and the coaching that I do for engineering leaders, but just to remind people for one, putting 10 more hours into your company’s work is not the same as one hour of dedicating to your own growth and expansion master.

[00:46:17] Jim Cathcart: And it’s one hour extra. Extra, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Focused on you, on your path. And, something that’s important here is for people to recognize that if you know how to get it done, then the thing you’re writing down that you wanna do is not a goal, it’s a to-do. Nobody know how to get it done. It’s a to-do.

[00:46:40] That’s all that’s so busy. If you don’t know how to get it done, that’s a goal. See, a goal forces you to come up with the plan to fill the gap between you and it. I love that. That’s the, that’s what a goal is for. when the team starts a game in a football game, they see the goal at the other end.

[00:47:01] They have no idea how to get there through this mob of, of adversaries who are going to already know what your usual tactics are, and they’re gonna block you at every turn. 

[00:47:12] Zach White: That’s a beautiful picture. And I so often see people set goals like go to the gym three times a week or, finish the project on time and it’s like, It’s great, but I agree with you.

[00:47:24] Like that’s a table stakes to-do list. Yeah. Type of thing. And, people will get caught. Here’s the goal, caught 

[00:47:29] Jim Cathcart: up, here’s the goal for the person that’s going to the gym three days a week. Sure. The goal is to have this person, that person, and that person say, dang Zach, you’re looking good, man. Keep it up.

[00:47:44] Yes. That’s the goal. Now, how do you get there? You work on the abs, you work on the Adams , you know, and you show up three days a week. Yeah. Okay. Now you’re talking because what you want is not so much the praise. It’s that the praise. It’s kinda like applause at the end of a speech. What? That’s not worth anything.

[00:48:03] It’s validation that the speech was valuable to them. Yes. It’s validation that the achievement of your goal has occurred. So people say, well, you just want other people to, to, praise you. Only if the praise is sincere. because if it’s sincere, it’s a symptom of success. If it’s not sincere, it’s just sounds, artificial intelligence will create that for me.

[00:48:29] Zach White: I think a lot of people need to hear that message cuz we sometimes question ourselves when we seek validation. And it’s not about the sound, it’s about the understanding that it had real value for them. 

[00:48:42] Jim Cathcart: That’s, that’s beautiful. Exactly. Yeah. That’s like, um, uh, yesterday I got notified by, Jack Tanfield and Mark Victor Hansen’s Company, chicken Soup for the Soul that an article I, or chapter I wrote for, for a chicken soup book was accepted into the final round and it’s probably gonna be published in January.

[00:49:01] Well, that’s cool. You know it. And uh, the nice thing is that’s a validation from a publication that’s the best selling publication series in the history of print. In the history of print. I remember when they wrote their first book. I was at Book Expo America, the National Book Sellers Convention. It was in Los Angeles that year.

[00:49:24] And I’d taken my book Relationship Selling. Yes. Which you have the, one of the early copies of, I had taken that to a new publisher so I was there to sign books and do things like that. And here come, Jack Canfield and Mark Victor Hansen. And my wife Paula and I were walking through the exhibits on this huge convention floor and they said, Hey, Jim, Paula, come here.

[00:49:45] Come here, come here. So we walk over and sit down on a little couch seating area and they said, let’s tell you what we’re doing. We got a new book, chicken Soup for the Soul. I said, well, that’s a catchy title. Yeah. And we’ve been turned down by half a dozen. You know, publishers already, but it looks like one of them’s gonna go for it.

[00:50:09] And, uh, we’re, we’re just thrilled about it. 

[00:50:12] Zach White: You were there before it even, they hadn’t sold the book yet. Yeah. Now the most published series ever in the history of print. That is, that’s really something. Jim, I don’t wanna interrupt you, but I promised you we’d get you outta here in a reasonable time. I just wanna listen to this all day long, but thank you.

[00:50:28] Maybe in the spirit of books, a quick rapid fire thing. Yeah. I’m just curious about outside of the 23 plus four coming from you, what are the two or three books that, for you have been absolute game changers that you might recommend if somebody wants to know what’s on Jim Kath Charact books to read.

[00:50:47] Books to read? Yeah. 

[00:50:48] Jim Cathcart: Okay. Books to read. Well, first off, you gotta start with the standard, which is Think and Grow Rich. Okay. Yep. Napoleon Hills Famous. Oh, you’ve got 

[00:50:59] Zach White: a, is that a First Edition? First edition. Oh, wow. Yeah. So this is, I’m kind of jealous about 

[00:51:04] Jim Cathcart: that. Yellow Pages, uh, yellowed pages. Uhhuh . And then, you know, the, all the standards from back in the day.

[00:51:13] You know, I read and, and I would still read these, this, my grandson said, this is his favorite book so far Ever. And he read Harry Potters, you know, the whole series, how to Win Friends and Influence People. Uhhuh by Dale Carnegie, Zig Ziegler. See you at the top on the back of this. He’s got a picture of him with Norman Vincent Peele.

[00:51:32] Yep. Who wrote The Power of Positive Thinking. Positive Thinking. Yes. I knew both of these men. and here’s Peel’s Power, positive Thinking, early edition. Uh, but those Ag Mandino, uh, a guy named Augustine Mandino, was a friend of mine and one of the most successful authors ever. and he wrote a book called The Greatest Salesman in the World.

[00:51:59] This is, oh, I love that one. One of the series that came out of it. Greatest Gift in the World. This is Ag picture of him. 

[00:52:06] Zach White: You were friends with ag. Yeah. Yeah. Jim, 

[00:52:09] Jim Cathcart: I love that book so much. We served on the board of the National Speakers Association together and one day his boss, w Clement Stone, who wrote Success through a positive mental attitude and was the personal manager and partner of Napoleon Hill Thinking Grow Rich.

[00:52:27] Uh, I was with Doc with Mr. Stone and we were in Indianapolis at a convention and Stone and I were walking around the convention together and he said, I want to go by the expo area because, uh, one of my employees, the President of Success magazine is over there, ag Mandino. . And so we walked up to the booth and Ag said, boss, this is Jim Cathcart.

[00:52:53] He’s a great writer. Well, that was a nice thing to say and it was sweet of him, but certainly was not true at the time. , although Ag had read a book that I had written. Okay. And it was, it was a summary of other great books, but Odd kept it in his desk and, uh, what an honor, no doubt. But my pledge after hearing that compliment was to someday be worthy of it.

[00:53:17] Hmm. 

[00:53:18] Zach White: That’s so good. Jim, thank you for the, the, the great news for me is I have read every book that you’ve recommended, but now I’m gonna pull ’em back off the shelf and go for another round because they’re all that good. Here’s 

[00:53:31] Jim Cathcart: one that’s, that’s fun and you can even read it with your kids if you want to, but it’s fun just for yourself.

[00:53:38] Live a thousand years by Giovanni. Giovanni Lara I, sb n o 9 6 6 0 5 6 7 4 4. And live a thousand years is like watching a Disney movie, and the book is just phenomenal. I’m 

[00:54:03] Zach White: okay. I’ve never read that. So I am buying a copy today and the engineer in me is so happy that she read the I S B N number. Like that’s

[00:54:11] That’s pretty, you know, you’re talking to a, an author and 

[00:54:14] Jim Cathcart: somebody who’s, who’s, well, the engineer in you will like this. Giovanni Laa created life navigation documents to go with the book Live a thousand Years, which is about a journey. Okay. And in this, he’s got a orientation, he’s got a set of documents, and where do you see just one of them?

[00:54:36] This was done. Oh, this is cool. As if Walt Disney Corporation had done it itself. Look at the quality of this. 

[00:54:45] Zach White: So for those just listening, you’re gonna have to jump on YouTube and see this, and you’re gonna want to get a copy. This is very cool. Unbelievable. Okay. All right. Well there’s a tip of the day. Go.

[00:54:55] Go buy a copy of Live a thousand years and the documents that go with it. Jim, we need to wrap it up. I know it’s that time for you tell people where can they get connected with your incredible body of work and the work that’s continuing to come. I know you’re not done yet. You gave me a sneak preview.

[00:55:13] I’m of what’s to come. I’m slow down. Um, we don’t have time to talk about it, but where can people connect with Jim Cathcart? 

[00:55:20] Jim Cathcart: Well, the beauty of it is my name is the key to everything . So if they go to jim cathcart.com, that’s my digital business card. and it opens up to give them all my social links and every imaginable other resource.

[00:55:38] I mean, I’ll show it to you on my phone when you scroll through it. It’s got my Ted Talk. All my social media links, Ted Talk, said two and a half million views. It’s got a way to get a free book. Uh, it’s got a link to Amazon to order my books. It’s got sign up for my going pro or my, my, uh, expert academy and it’s even got down at the bottom schedule a call with me.

[00:56:06] Beautiful. So, and that’s just my name, you know, so, We’ll 

[00:56:10] Zach White: put that link in the show notes. I, I’ll just take 30 seconds, Jim, and I wanna acknowledge you for one, since the day I met you, you have always been one of the most generous leaders I’ve ever met. You care so much about, my success and everybody in our mastermind, everybody you meet, your work is truly life wonderful, changing transformational work, and I just cannot recommend enough that people go out, buy the books, stay in touch, sign up for your newsletter, you’ll never regret it.

[00:56:39] And then I’m gonna go get a copy of Live a thousand Years right after we hang up. And Jim, I always, usually finish with the same question, but I feel like you’ve already answered it today. What I ask is, questions, lead, answers follow in great engineering and in great coaching and in great, human development.

[00:56:56] So if we want better answers, we need to ask better questions. And so I, I usually end by saying, Jim, what would be. The one question that you would lead us with today, and you already told us what the question is, maybe that’s the answer or would you give us anything else before we wrap? 

[00:57:12] Jim Cathcart: Wrap? Well, there’s a secondary answer.

[00:57:14] The first one is, what do you want? And, the more skilled you get at answering what do you want? the more your life will reflect those wants because it’ll become a reality. But here’s the question.

[00:57:25] Every day, as often as you can think of it, ask this question, how would the person I’d like to be, do the things I’m about to do? How would the person I would like to be the better me? The more advanced, the more mature, the more enlightened me. How would that version of me do the things I’m about to do? So you think like going to get the graduate.

[00:57:51] And bringing him back to the freshman year and have him do your homework. I love it. Right? 

[00:57:56] Zach White: Yeah, I love it. Every day, multiple times a day. Ask that question. Jim, thank you again for your time and generosity. I can’t wait to see you again, my friend. Same 

[00:58:06] Jim Cathcart: here, Zach. Thank you.