154: Here is a Method to Make Career Fulfillment a GAME with Jay Abbasi

[00:00:17] Anywhere recording in person on a zoom phone 

[00:00:20] Zach White: call. I feel the same. How many years have we known each other now? When did we meet? Do you remember? 

[00:00:27] Jay Abbasi: It’s at least three, I 

[00:00:28] Zach White: think three years. It feels like just the other day when we were meeting and, uh, coaching conference world and all this, but so many amazing things that you’ve accomplished and done and the leaders who you’ve helped.

[00:00:41] And it’s awesome for anybody who’s picked up the happy engineer podcast more recently, you were featured back in episode 21, which, you know, now this is going to release in the 150 something probably when this episode comes out. Definitely encourage everybody go back and listen to episode 21 with Jay.

[00:00:59] Tons of wisdom, so many golden nuggets. tell me as a starting point. The story before we hit record today, we were just kind of riffing about things you’re up to and clients you’re helping.

[00:01:11] what’s going on with the people who are leaning into this growth and transformation and all the reasons that we do what we do as coaches, just set the stage with that experience. I think it’s going to be really useful for where we want to go in talking about.

[00:01:25] Building a fulfilling and impactful and balancing career today. So just recap that story for me. 

[00:01:33] Jay Abbasi: my client, his name is Mark. He’s out in Sydney in Australia, actually. So, uh, when I met him, the word that I remember him saying, and I hear this a lot from people, you probably hear it too, is, uh, he felt stuck.

[00:01:46] Stuck, stuck in where he was with his work, also stuck in his own head, stuck emotionally, and we were working together for a few weeks. He’s still in the middle of our program. And last week we were on a call and he said to me, Jay, the other day, my wife randomly, randomly says to me, you know, Mark, I see a noticeable change in you.

[00:02:11] You’re much more at peace. You’re much more confident. And. It’s just shining in you and I what was fascinating about that was it surprised him It surprised him because when we do start to really grow and develop at times, we’re not even noticing it we’re not capable of acknowledging because we’re immersed in our own heads But when someone else that we love someone else that we care about sees it in us, that’s I think the best measure Of our growth.

[00:02:38] Zach White: That statement reminds me of my client, Hadi. I remember when he told me, I wasn’t really sure if this was working, but my wife told me it’s working. And for the engineers who I coach, Jay, it’s like we’re always looking for the measuring stick. And some of this work really is difficult to put a metric to.

[00:02:55] those outside perspectives, while we don’t want to. live only for the recognition of others, it sure does to know you’re making that impact. So two things about that story and Mark’s journey, which I love that it’s not even over yet. He’s just getting started in a few weeks and surprising himself with that growth.

[00:03:18] First, come back to the word stuck, because you’re totally right. stuck, lost, just general uncertainty about, where do I go from here, a crossroads, you know, I hear that kind of language a lot. It’s like, I’m sitting at a crossroads. I don’t know if I should go left or right. With your experience coaching so many leaders through career, what would you estimate precedes the feeling of being stuck?

[00:03:48] How do we end up there? And, and are there any markers or things that you’ve seen that lead people down a road to the point where there’s a, a stake in the ground around this idea of being stuck? 

[00:04:00] Jay Abbasi: something that I think is easy to recognize, but people don’t take it maybe as seriously as they need to.

[00:04:08] And that is how you’re feeling Sunday evening or Monday morning when you’re thinking about your week. And if that feeling is one of dread, of, I just can’t wait to the next weekend, or my vacation. you’re on the path. Potentially, you’re on the path to getting stuck. So I’d say that’s one marker. And then the other one that came to mind for me that I see often is that people they haven’t been taking care of themselves and in the most fundamental ways.

[00:04:44] They’re not exercising. They aren’t doing any self care practices. They’re just kind of, you know, In a state of reactivity all day on their phones quite a bit and only presents itself as I’m stuck when it got to a point where it was really, really breaking down.

[00:05:03] I think it’s always best to recognize that earlier, obviously, whenever possible. Yeah, 

[00:05:08] Zach White: The thing I would add to this, Jay, tell me if you agree. If you do not have meaningful, inspiring goals of any kind in your life, it’s a good chance that you’re either already stuck or going to be, if there’s no vision, if there’s nothing to move towards, then you’re either just wandering in circles or eventually you just stop moving because why would you, there’s nowhere to get to, I think that’s another.

[00:05:35] A precursor to people feeling lost and stuck is there is no destination anymore. I don’t know. Do you, would you agree with that? 

[00:05:43] Jay Abbasi: Yeah, I think there’s not only evidence of that in our own experience and for anyone listening, you know that whenever you do have something that you’re pursuing that is greater than yourself, you feel much more inspired day in and day out.

[00:05:58] There’s also a lot of research behind this too, as what is the greatest motivator for the average person when you’ve gone past the most important things like just basic needs, food, water, relationship, when you have those safety needs and, just overall fundamental needs taken care of the next thing that you were going to need or what will Motivate you will be something greater than yourself.

[00:06:26] Yeah. And that’s what I think you’re alluding 

[00:06:28] Zach White: to there. Yeah, that’s good. So the other half of your story with Mark then, this idea that he was not aware of the growth until an outside party, in this case his spouse, said, hey, I see a difference. If we’re in the pursuit of personal development and growth and we’re not even aware of what’s happening, how do you make sure that it’s actually working?

[00:06:52] Yeah. This is the classic, like skeptical Zach being an engineer for a second, Jay. It’s like, Oh, well, if I can’t even tell that it’s working, how do I know that this pursuit of an inspiring and balanced fulfilling career is worth the time? So I’m curious for you, is there something missing there that we need to do to actually see and gauge and experience for ourselves that growth, or is it true that the external.

[00:07:19] feedback loop is the mechanism by which we experience that shift. what’s the way to know if it’s working? 

[00:07:28] Jay Abbasi: Yeah. I do think the external perspective is helpful and it would serve us to ask the people around us. So I definitely think that. And I do think we need to do our own reflection exercises.

[00:07:43] Ourselves. So through a journaling practice, one can be able to gauge how they were feeling that day, what they were able to accomplish that day, be able to treat your journaling practice as though it is a conversation with somebody else, because that will help you to be able to get out of your own head, which we are all immersed in our own thinking and be able to move forward.

[00:08:05] objectively review and analyze how we’re feeling, what we’re doing, how we’re, what kind of success we’ve had. So I think that is a very effective way, journaling in itself, and you don’t even need to go back and read your old journals. I mean, you can, but it’s just the activity itself of writing it out that helps you to be able to give yourself a very honest assessment.

[00:08:28] Zach White: I like that. All right, let’s take that. It’s a perfect segue. Then I want to share With the happy engineers out there, this framework, this, you know, not only process or methodology that you’ve created, but also a really powerful metaphor for thinking and in some ways detaching ourselves from this Wild and crazy experience that we call life and career building into something useful to get to this idea of what is fulfilling to me, what will help me experience the balance I want, create the impact I want, et cetera.

[00:09:07] And it revolves around game, a game. So Jay, what’s the deal with the game set the stage for us. how do you see this? How does this come to life in our own career journey? What’s the game? 

[00:09:23] Jay Abbasi: Yeah. Well, I think everybody listening, you’ve played a game at one point in your life. And so, Zach, imagine you’re holding one of those controllers, Playstation, Xbox, whatever it is, right?

[00:09:33] And you got the game on and, and you see on the screen there’s a character there. And the character has certain attributes, certain strengths that already exist within the game that you’re playing. So, from this perspective, of course, you want the character to succeed, you want the character to win. And if something does happen Where the character doesn’t get to that next level, or whatever, immediately.

[00:09:58] You’re not going to fall apart as the one who’s playing the game. I hope not. If you are, then you have a problem with video games, it’s a completely different story. But if you’re able to just treat it as, Okay, I can put the remote control down and walk away and it’s no big deal, then there’s a detachment there.

[00:10:12] So the idea behind the game methodology is for you to be able to assess strengths, your attributes, your values, your mission, create a vision with a sense of detachment and looking at what are the existing strengths and passions. Because I think too often, Zach, what people do is they say, okay, I have to find my purpose.

[00:10:37] I need to find clarity. Now, there’s something wrong with that because it suggests that it’s somewhere outside that you have to pull into you, but in reality, it’s already there. And so what you have to do is allow for purpose, clarity to find you, and you allow it to find you by having a detached, objective review versus one that is caught up in story and emotion and overthinking.

[00:11:08] Zach White: The value of detachment is it gives space for purpose. Passion, strength, self discovery, self awareness to find you instead of me chasing or journeying or adventuring out to find it. Very interesting shift in the energy. Like, wait a minute. The purpose is already there, it just needs to find me. how would you describe this?

[00:11:37] it finds me kind of experience, you know, and I guess making a case for why detachment is an important mindset or frame to take as we journey through career and life. it’s hard to put. Words too, right? It’s like, what, what does that mean, Jay? How does the purpose find me? with whatever you can, like, help me out.

[00:11:58] Help me understand what’s the difference between me looking for it or trying to find it versus the experience of being detached and letting it find me. What’s that like? 

[00:12:08] Jay Abbasi: So I thought of this very famous Taoist analogy, and I think it really will paint the picture for us. Perfect. when the archer is shooting at the target.

[00:12:20] When the archer is shooting at the target simply because the archer just isn’t in the moment and doing what the archer does, he hits the bullseye. When the archer is aiming at the target, but somebody says hit the bullseye and you’ll get a bronze coin, he will miss the bullseye, but he’ll hit the target.

[00:12:38] If he’s told you will receive gold in abundance if you hit the bullseye, Now the archer completely misses and sees two different targets. So what happens is we are detached to certain attached to certain outcomes. We’re attached to certain outcomes. And when we get attached to outcomes, it clouds our vision.

[00:13:05] We have desire or fear that now gets in the way of what it is that we’re really here to do. And I think everybody, every person has a unique talent to offer the world and to serve the world in a meaningful way. And it is desire and fear that gets in the way. of seeing what that is. So there isn’t anything that needs to be added to you or grasp from outside of yourself.

[00:13:31] What you need to do actually is clear out all the blurriness and the cloud cover that is getting in the way of what’s already here.

[00:13:42] Zach White: Attachment to an outcome will blur your vision. I love that. So tell us about how this Metaphor of looking at career as a game. Okay. I can kind of wrap my head around. I’m an avatar and a character in this game called my engineering career. I want to go from manager to director. So that’s the level that I’m on.

[00:14:09] And, there’s a really gnarly boss at the end of this level to get my promotion. And okay. I could kind of play along with this Jay, but what do I actually do? Like, it’s fun to think about makes for a nice. happy hour conversation over a couple of drinks about losing a couple of rounds of the video game this week with my, my team.

[00:14:27] But I got to actually go to work and do some things. I need to take action here. It’s like, what, what is really going on? Tell us about the methodology in the real world. What’s happening to bring this to life. so 

[00:14:39] Jay Abbasi: the process, what you do in going through the steps of that game analogy, where every letter is an acronym that stands for something we want to do an assessment of.

[00:14:48] What are your guiding principles? That’s what the G stands for, and really knowing what the values are of the character in the game. And everybody has different guiding principles. And again, these aren’t things that are new or that require a great deal of external discovery. When you look back at your life And you recognize that things that are the most important and meaningful for you, you then pull them out and then you identify that as your North star that no matter what you’re doing in your career, these are the things that you will hold true and stay with throughout every step.

[00:15:22] So I think that is the 1st action to take. And then. If I were to just keep 

[00:15:26] Zach White: going here Well, let’s sit one second on that before you go forward. Give us a specific example of a career guiding principle that your clients, discover within themselves and helps them win the game. Like, let’s just put a couple examples around that.

[00:15:42] One 

[00:15:42] Jay Abbasi: example is connection. So if connection is your guiding principle, human connection, then what you need to be doing is designing your career around ensuring that you are going to be able to connect with other people. One of the things that I see all the time, Zach, and tell me if you see this too, is that oftentimes when people fall into that place where they’re stuck, it’s because the activities that they’re doing just don’t align with their natural strengths.

[00:16:05] if you’re someone who loves to connect with people, but all day you’re sitting in front of a computer and it doesn’t align with you, that’s not going to be a good fit. Now, another example. Something as simple, but important, is incredibly important, is honesty. If that is your guiding principle, honesty, and you are in an environment where there seems to be a lot of dishonesty, then most likely the need is to be able to shift into a new environment.

[00:16:33] Because if that’s something that is so important to you, you do not sacrifice honesty. for a job, for a paycheck. So that’s really what is at the core of this act, which is to suggest that whatever are the guiding principles, they do not get sacrificed for anything. 

[00:16:50] Zach White: I think that’s an important distinction or bullet point to add.

[00:16:54] It’s like, these aren’t just points on the compass that help guide, what South from North, East from West. It’s truly the non negotiable Guiding North Star this direction and only this direction, if you want to experience Your career and life at its fullest level, you’re always going to experience some level of resistance or suffering or negative energy that will manifest if you are violating these parts of your being.

[00:17:29] Would you agree? Is that a fair way to say that? Or is there any? Okay, it’s 

[00:17:32] Jay Abbasi: very well said. And the only thing I’m going to add to that is to not to suggest that you are never going to be in your you’re going to be an environment where there’s never any dishonesty. It’s more of you don’t have to sacrifice It’s your principle of maintaining honesty in the environment that you’re in.

[00:17:50] Zach White: Super good. In the spirit of GAME as an acronym, what I’ll add to this as well that I’ve seen with clients is they discover the guiding principles and we use the words core values, but I really think speaking around the same idea. It’s not just the word honesty that you need. You have to know for yourself the rules of honesty, what must be true for honesty to be honored to the fullest in your life.

[00:18:20] So to your point, honesty is violated when these things and honesty is, present when these things, I think sometimes where my clients stumble is they have some of these broad. ideas of a guiding principle, maybe take integrity or honesty or something like that. In a way, the devil’s in the details, right?

[00:18:40] They haven’t actually gotten into what, what, what is the rule I hold about integrity is present when this. And so they’re saying, oh, so and so is violating. They have no integrity. It’s like, well, okay, what about what they actually do? What, what was the thing? And especially gets tricky when you get into some that are Oh, my rules and your rules are different.

[00:19:01] You know, you think you’re living with integrity, but you’re doing something that I don’t think is, you know, an integrity, and, and we end up with these conflicts, but we’re both saying we have the same guiding principle, and it’s like, wait a minute, how is that possible? So I, I think, I encourage people to go, go a level deeper than just these broad brush ideas.

[00:19:19] Do you really know for yourself how to live it, what has to happen? And to your point, if you’re being told you must violate those rules, then you’re not going to be happier or have that fulfilling, inspiring, impactful career you want. So super good guiding principles. Is there ever a, a situation Jay you’ve seen where somebody’s just not able to figure out what those are?

[00:19:47] It’s like hidden from them, or you’re doing work with a client on guiding principles and they just feel like they don’t know. 

[00:19:53] Jay Abbasi: it comes up. And when it does, my process is to have them go to real life examples of things that were incredibly meaningful for them and things that happened throughout life and career that can showcase what was the guiding principle that led them to make the decision that they made.

[00:20:13] Zach White: What I hear in that method of discovery, it’s almost like your subconscious knows, your body already knows because you’ve been living it out and it’s either creating positive, happy, joyful, fulfilling experiences when you are, or negative, you’re frustrating, angry, sad, disappointing, depressing, stuck things when you’re not.

[00:20:36] So it’s like, let’s just look for the clues of how it’s already showing up. I really liked that. So I got guiding principles. What’s the A? 

[00:20:44] Jay Abbasi: The A stands for assessment. And here is where we assess our strengths and our passions. We assess our strengths. And our passions with the strengths it is to be able to identify the meaningful activities that one thrives at the thing is, though, Zach, not everyone loves the things that they’re great.

[00:21:13] So that’s why the other aspect of it is important. But it’s to be able to do that download of saying here are the things that I have. And this activity I encourage people to do not only in self assessment, but to ask people around them. What do others say are the feedback in your strengths?

[00:21:29] And a lot of times people get surprised by what other people say. And I didn’t realize that other people thought this was a strength of mine. Well, that’s important for you to know. And then the other aside of it, right, is the passion, which is, okay, you can be great at something, but you need to love it.

[00:21:44] You need to, needs to be something that is a flow state activity, where when you do it, time is flying and you blink and two hours go by. Now. You don’t want to do an activity that you are not strong in either. And in this, when you’re determining what this really is teaching you, but you want to be able to pair those two to be able to say, here are the things that I love, I’m passionate about, and here’s the things that I’m very good at, to then be able to identify how you’re going to take those and.

[00:22:11] Find a way to appropriate them into your career. 

[00:22:15] Zach White: I like how simple that is. I think sometimes, whether it’s the hedgehog thing from Jim Collins or Ikegai, I forget how to pronounce that, you know, the five circles are just giant. It can be a bit overwhelming. Like, how do I figure out all these crazy things about myself to, to know who I am and what I’m supposed to be doing?

[00:22:31] Please, somebody fix me. And this, this is nice. You look for that overlap of your inherent strength and genius and flow and capability with passion, love, natural resonance to doing it as a place to aim, aim where you go. Let’s say that’s easy. I got my place. These are the things. well, actually, you know what?

[00:22:54] That’s an unfair statement. Let me back up one second. I want to get curious with you. If, if I just do this on my own, what’s the risk of. missing the truth around this as far as we’re coaches, right? So I’m pretty biased towards thinking doing this with a third party is really important, but I just, I mean, curious if somebody says, yeah, you know, I’m going to ask some friends.

[00:23:18] I’m going to do my own three 60, just go gather data and not have. Somebody really guide and support and push and challenge you through a process like this. Is there anything you’ve seen like where we might stumble or if somebody does want to do it on their own, just what to really watch out for to make sure you’re being honest with yourself and you’re getting the truth 

[00:23:36] Jay Abbasi: here?

[00:23:37] Yeah, well, I think there’s one thing that could happen, which is, uh, there’s some of your own internal bias or the bias of even the people around you that are ways in which you are attempting to. Protect yourself and stay as comfortable as you can. that’s the biggest thing I see in people.

[00:23:56] It’s like, well, this is what I’ve done, and I’ve already done this, so it must be only that. But you need to be challenged at times, because that may be the path that you’ve gone down to this point, but it doesn’t need to be the path that you’re going to go down from here. So you can’t just let the past and the existing bias that you have dictate.

[00:24:18] That’s one. and then the other part of that, which I think it’s, it’s paired with it is just simple, the imposter syndrome that can come up and not feeling like you are worthy enough to be able to pursue something different. And you’re justifying that through doing this all by yourself and just asking a few people pointed questions that kind of give you the answers that you were already hoping that you’d get 

[00:24:40] Zach White: versus working with a professional.

[00:24:42] I have an amazing client named Andy who for years. Wanted to start his own business, had the idea, knew what it would be, thought about it over and over and never took the plunge because there was always some reason that he wasn’t ready. I’m not good enough at this yet. I don’t know how to do my own thing as a business.

[00:25:07] I’m probably going to fail. It’ll leave my family in the lurch. There’s this. And in 90 days in tackling these types of questions in the support of coaching and community, he He wrote the business plan, started the business, launched the business, got his first client, quit his day job. Now in just 180 days has five team members and more work than they can handle.

[00:25:32] And so in six months, he, he got to a place that he had dreamed of for six years, just because of what you said, this preconceived belief that I don’t have the strengths that I need. To pursue my passion and the truth was he absolutely had it is just, imposter syndrome and bias. So I really appreciate that comment, how important it is to have somebody there who can say, wait a minute.

[00:25:56] Is that true? Because what you just said sounds a whole lot like garbage from, you know, preconceived belief, andshout out Andy, you’re, you’re a rockstar. I’m really happy for you. Okay. I’ve got my guiding principles. I do the deep work to assess. Yeah. What it wears by genius and passion. Where do we go from there 

[00:26:17] Jay Abbasi: from there?

[00:26:18] It’s identifying the meaning and mission. So the meaning and mission is the way in which you identify the service that you can provide the world. And we do this with some practical thinking as well, because there needs to be a problem out there that you uniquely consult. I hear this actually often all the time in circles of entrepreneurs where we have to think about that, right?

[00:26:50] What is the problem that your business solves but you don’t hear it as much in corporate But you need to because it applies it applies to all aspects of any profession whatsoever so We understand what are your strengths? What are your passions? Now, how can we leverage those in a way where it solves an existing problem?

[00:27:11] And it could be something that you can look at as your personal vision versus a vision that a company has that you’re attaching to, because in that you’ve identified yourself with the organization and therefore your mission is. Is not something that you would feel as passionate about. So it can tie into a corporation that also aligns with that.

[00:27:35] But even if that corporation goes away, you still have your mission. Mm. You still have your destination of what you’re after. So what I often refer to with my clients is I am giving you the tools to be the CEO of your life, not to be chasing someone else’s dream. Now the vehicle through which you chase your dream could be a company that’s okay, but you’re still the CEO of your life.

[00:27:58] Zach White: That’s right. Really important. And, and, you know, a big shift, I think from, our parents or especially grandparents generation mindset about the relationship we have with the company. my clients who are Gen Z and younger, it’s pretty obvious that the sense of.

[00:28:15] Loyalty and connection and commitment to the company’s vision. It’s either completely non existent or even worse. It’s like anti it’s like, I’m, I’m opposed to it. It’s, and this almost rugged individualism is rearing up again. And so I wanted to mention it just to ask, is there anything we need to be careful about with this?

[00:28:39] CEO of my own life. It’s my vision, my mission, my meaning, and it doesn’t matter about the company where that could create a potential roadblock or an issue with how you interact with the organization and how do we kind of marry the two? Cause I don’t, I don’t hear you saying, you know, screw the company.

[00:28:57] They don’t matter. It’s all about me. but I do think there is a, a big divide in terms of really trusting or caring about the organization. Itself the way that many people did in the past and I’m curious what your thought is on how to reconcile those two Yeah 

[00:29:15] Jay Abbasi: so if I go back to that metaphor of the game and you think about a character in the game for the Character to achieve something it may need to partner with other people and collaborate Yeah, that’s good And that’s the way you want to approach it because anything that’s any great achievements Are never accomplished by one person ever.

[00:29:37] Yeah That’s just not the way we are as human beings when we have had some incredible achievements In our society over the last just even the last 10 years, you know But if you go farther and all of it was through a collective effort Yeah, so when you are within that organization you are working as a team engaged and We’re doing so where, yes, you have a destination that you have set for yourself, but you look to your team, your tribe, your group as the means through which you’re going to be able to all achieve what is a collective vision when you’re working for the organization.

[00:30:16] Zach White: Yeah, I love that meaning and mission, which at the end of the day. Most people like that’s what I’ve, I get the sense is, is a big gap when they’re in that stuck place, the work I do, it has no meaning to me. There’s no impact. There’s no connection to it. No fulfillment. So what is then the E? If we think about this game methodology, where do we land the plane?

[00:30:42] Yeah. 

[00:30:43] Jay Abbasi: So E comes down to, The execution plan. So you said it earlier, and I agree with you, Zach, which is we need to be able to take the actions. What are the steps? So we’ve now gone to the end destination. So we’re able to now reverse engineer that to be able to say this is what we’re after. This is the ultimate goal, and we’re now going to be able to identify the steps that need to be taken, including things like, do I need to leverage more of the relationships around me and be able to effectively network and engage with the people I either work with or outside of work?

[00:31:23] Are there some soft skill development that I really need? What is my plan of execution there? Do I need to adjust the way in which I’m working with people and speaking with people? Is the execution plan around? Developing a business like you said, Andy did and be able to really execute on that. So that’s to me where there’s a lot of fun involved and it needs to really be individualized because that plan of execution will be really determined by, okay, you know what you’re after now, you know what your strengths are, you know, maybe where the gaps are.

[00:31:52] So let’s go ahead and fill those gaps and develop the plan. Yes. 

[00:31:58] Zach White: Connecting it all back to why the game metaphor is useful. And we started with this notion that detachment from the outcome creates the space and the freedom, not only to allow some of these things, the revelation and manifestation of these things to happen faster and easier, and, you know, I don’t have to chase it, and if I just come with an open hand, let it come to me.

[00:32:24] Now if we’re thinking about this execution. It’s time to go into the real world and do it. Can you just describe how does setting the controller down and walking away with this sense of detachment, how does that actually look in my life, in real life as I’m now in execution of the game? Well, 

[00:32:48] Jay Abbasi: I think how it looks is where when there isn’t a detachment or there is an attachment to an outcome, it allows for you to be able to enjoy the present moment and enjoy the activities that you’re doing to be able to know that when I take these steps, this is what’s where it’s going to lead me down.

[00:33:10] And I find that the reason why so many people get caught, get stuck is because they aren’t able to be present. They aren’t able to enjoy. The here and now, and this is where we live life right here. There is no other time. This is just it there. The future is just an idea in our heads. There is no one’s ever experienced the future.

[00:33:32] No one’s ever experienced the past. We only experienced the present moment. And so why I love this metaphor too, is because it can help you. to be able to more naturally be present, take the steps and enjoy every step, savor every step. And then as you look up, if you realize the action steps that you’re taking are maybe need some tweaking, need some adjustment, you can do so with detachment.

[00:33:58] You can do so without getting caught in your 

[00:34:02] Zach White: stories. Yeah. The word that comes to mind for me as you describe that is peace. Yeah, just to be able to flow through your day in the present moment with peace of mind. And one of my coaches, Jay, has been saying all over social media lately that peace is the new profit.

[00:34:26] It’s like people are just desperate to experience real. And I think you have a powerful pathway to that for people who want to build their career. So Jay guiding principles, assessing strengths and passions, meaning and mission and execute on that plan. If someone knows this is what I need. And I really want to talk to Jay about working through this and getting the help I need to, you know, be like Mark and just.

[00:34:57] Have a radical transformation, maybe faster and bigger than you even believe is possible for yourself. How can someone connect with you? What would be the best next step if they want to work on the game of their own career? 

[00:35:10] Jay Abbasi: Yeah, I think just find me on LinkedIn, send me a connection request, send me a message and we could chat a little bit.

[00:35:17] And the other thing, my website, j bossy dot me. There’s a 15 minute time slots that we have available for some, uh, career audits. If a conversation would be better to. Talk things through and see how I can help. 

[00:35:30] Zach White: Amazing. Jay, you are an incredibly humble man. And so I’m going to speak to the happy engineer here for just a second.

[00:35:37] If you are even remotely thinking that this matters and is important for what you need right now, Go. Connect with Jay immediately. Don’t be bashful, make it happen. I promise you, you will never regret investing into your own life and future through working with Jay. So we’ll get those links in the show notes.

[00:35:59] Go click them now and make it happen. Jay, thanks again for being here. I’m excited to wrap this up. And you know, as well as anybody I hang out with that great coaching, just like great engineering, the questions we ask lead, the answers we experience follow. Questions lead answers follow, and we’re all seeking better answers in the world and the careers that we want and the lives we want to live.

[00:36:26] So what would be the question that you would challenge and lead the happy engineer with coming out of this conversation?

[00:36:34] I’m 

[00:36:34] Jay Abbasi: going to offer a question that you can ask yourself. Rather than a question I’m asking you. So take this with you as something that you can tap into as needed. What is required of me in 

[00:36:46] Zach White: this moment?

[00:36:48] What is required of me in this moment? I love that. That that’s a lifer right there. Put it on a postcard, carry it with you and happy engineer. If the answer is. Support, with Jay, then go click the link and get time. It’s going to be awesome. Jay. Thanks again, brother This has been amazing. I yeah, I can’t wait to see you in real life again soon and Keep crushing it man I 

[00:37:13] Jay Abbasi: appreciate you brother until next time man