210: The 3 Levels of Mentorship and Why Engineers Struggle to Find Mentors

The mentors in your life. I was just listening to an interview with Tony Robbins and Jordan Peterson, two of my absolute favorite people to listen to, whether you like them or not, you have to respect what each of them have created and the level of impact that they have in their own domains. Tony Robbins as a coach and Jordan Peterson as a.

A thinker and a [00:01:00] brilliant articulate speaker on ideas. Uh, and, and honestly, just a brilliant man and the two of them in the same room. Really fascinated me. But what caught my attention in that interview was how Tony described to Jordan, his process of becoming great at the myriad things that he has become great at, not just coaching and speaking, but building businesses and having an impact in so many different ways.

And most recently he’s done it in the fields of money and investing and now in health business. And vitality and Tony just continues to have an impact. And when he described that to Jordan, he said, look, I don’t go out and pretend that I’m the best when I want to understand something and I want to then go make an impact in that domain.

The first thing I do is find who is already successful in that area because success leaves clues. One of Tony’s famous quotes, success leaves clues, and he [00:02:00] probably got it from Jim Rohn or some coach before him. And he said, look, I, you know, I have access to people because of where I’ve gotten in my life.

And so in writing his latest book, he went out and found all of the people who have advanced the research and have advanced the knowledge in the area of health and vitality and energy in these spaces. And he, He got together with them, and he talked to them, and he interviewed them, and he asked them question after question after question, and essentially he built his tribe of mentors.

Tony Robbins got to where he got. Through his sheer force of will, of course, but more importantly, the people who he modeled, the people who went before him, the shoulders of giants on which he is standing. And, of course, he took it even further, which is what a great mentor loves to see. A great mentor wants to see their mentees excel beyond the levels that they ever [00:03:00] reached.

Well, I That mindset is true for you. It’s true for me, the mentors and the coaches that I work with today are paving the way to the impact and the success that I will have in engineering and technology as a coach here at the oasis of courage and what I do in private equity investing and what I do as a husband and what I do in my health.

These people who I model after are the ones who are shaping my beliefs, my actions, my strategies, and. The proximity and the access that it creates because of whom spending time with. And for you and your career, the mentors and the coaches that you work with are doing the same thing. And what’s tragic, even though this is true, is how few engineering leaders that I talk to have great mentors.

Many have no mentor at all, which is completely unacceptable. [00:04:00] You need to have a great mentor, but many, you know, they have a mentor and it was someone who was assigned to them through some sort of internal matchmaking program. And they don’t really love that person. They don’t have a great relationship.

They don’t meet with them that often. And it’s not creating a ton of value for their growth. The number one reason I see that blocks people from building these mentorship relationships is honestly. They just don’t know how to ask. They don’t know how to begin. This just came up in a coaching session this past week.

One of the clients in my blueprint program asked the question, how do I ask somebody to be a mentor for me when I don’t even know them? It’s like, well, that’s an interesting question. So first of all, why are you going to people you don’t even know as your first stop for mentors? Well, none of the people I do know [00:05:00] fit the category.

They’re not great role models. They don’t have the success that I want. Remember, a mentor is someone who has accomplished the thing that you want to accomplish and can show you and share with you the way they did it. A mentor has walked the path. A coach may not have walked the path, but they have a skill set to help you create the highest and best success that’s possible for you.

There are different roles. Some people can play the role of both coach and mentor if they have the success and happen to have the skill set of coaching. But remember, they’re not the same thing. Many mentors are not great coaches and lots of your coaches will not be able to mentor you because they’ve not accomplished the thing that you want to accomplish.

So remember they’re different, but you know, Nathan asked me, how do I, how do I ask somebody who I don’t even know to be a mentor because none of the people that I’m connected to in my company are good fits. And these folks that I’m looking at on LinkedIn or in networking groups, they might [00:06:00] be the right fit, but it’s very awkward to just go up to somebody and say, Hi, my name is Nathan.

Would you like to be my mentor? It’s like, nobody wants to do that. And Oh, by the way, you have a job to do and a family to take care of and, you know, grass to cut and a mortgage to pay and all these things. So you’re too busy to go out and build a bunch of relationships to. Find mentors. That’s what everyone believes.

That’s what Nathan felt trapped in. And you might have this same experience. And if not you, then the people who you work with, the people who work for you, might be stuck on the same thing. So pay attention. This belief that you don’t know the right person yet to be your mentor, and that it’s really, inappropriate or uncomfortable to go up to a total stranger and just say, Hey, will you be my mentor?

That creates this mindset, a cage that keeps you stuck without great mentors in your life. you know, I’m not saying you’re going to be Tony Robbins, but if you want to model after the man who has [00:07:00] leveraged modeling and mentorship to the highest level of anybody I’ve ever heard of, then we can’t let that barrier hold us back.

That’s an unacceptable excuse. Here’s the way to think about building great mentorship in your life. Don’t start by asking someone to be your mentor. The relationship builds across three levels. So imagine a pyramid and the base level of the relationship. With someone who’s going to help you succeed in accomplishing your goals and vision in your career, the base level is not mentor.

And this is where we get it wrong. The base level of the three on this pyramid is advisor. Let’s talk about the difference, a mentor versus an advisor. [00:08:00] Anyone will give you advice. Okay, I literally mean anyone. You can ask anybody for advice. People love to give advice. That does not mean that it’s good advice.

In fact, I love the quote, I think Robert Kawasaki gets credit, but lots of people have said it. Some of the most expensive advice is free advice. So take it for what it’s worth. But advice is the place where the relationship begins. And because anybody is willing to give advice. Uh, or at least anybody can give you advice, it’s okay to go up to a quote unquote stranger and begin a relationship by asking them to be an advisor.

So if I was meeting someone at a networking event in real life and I walked up and I shook their hand and I was really impressed with their background, or maybe they are in the director or VP role that I would like to be in one day. Then in that conversation, I would say, Hey, you know, Nathan, it’s [00:09:00] amazing to connect with you.

And I see you’re a director of engineering at such and such organization. And I would love to be able to do a role like yours in the future. I’m a manager today. Would you be open? To sharing a few tips and some advice with me for maybe 10 minutes in a quick one on one sometime, 10 or 15 minutes, just a quick chat where I could ask you a few questions and get some advice on how to develop and build my skills and my leadership to be ready for a direct role like yours someday.

Now that’s Zach White’s words, use your own words, but a couple of key things about this, right? It’s Hey, I see your success. And what you’ve accomplished is something that I would love to be able to accomplish. And I want to acknowledge you for your success. I want to, you know, just put that on a pedestal for a moment.

And what happens there is you’re, you’re stroking that subconscious ego a little bit, [00:10:00] right? You’re saying, wow, I’ve, I see you, I see what you’ve accomplished. And people in those positions worked hard to get there. And it’s okay to just show some gratitude and show some appreciation for what they’ve accomplished.

And then you come in with this phrase. Hey, would you be open minded to giving me some advice? Would you be willing to share with me some insight? Right. It’s just a very generous ask. It’s a very soft, very open ask where you give them the opportunity to say no, or I’m too busy or, you know, thanks for asking, but not right now.

Right. We give them that opportunity to say no, but here’s what’s so cool. People who have accomplished things like this, if you come with a genuine open spirit and you make a nice small and specific ask, small meaning 10 or 15 minutes, I’m not asking this person who I just met for an hour or half a day, right?

Something that’s really big, just a few minutes of their time. You’ll be amazed at how many people will say yes to that request. You will [00:11:00] be amazed by the way, this works just as well on LinkedIn. You can go on LinkedIn, you can send somebody a connection request. You can comment on their posts. You can engage with somebody who you’ve never met and use the same structure and syntax, you know, Hey, Sarah, it’s amazing what you’ve accomplished.

I was just looking at your profile. Uh, I’m working in a similar industry and I’m a couple of levels behind where you have achieved in your career. And I would love to be able to get into a role like the one that you’re in someday. I know it’s a big ask, but Sarah, would you be open to jumping on a video chat sometime just for five or 10 minutes so I could ask you a few questions and get your advice about how to develop and grow in my career.

If I want to move in a direction like yours, I’m asking for advice. The first level, the bottom level of the pyramid in building these relationships with people who will support [00:12:00] your success. is advisors. You can go to anyone and ask for advice. I encourage you do this regularly, make it a part of the systems and habits of your career.

Every single week, go ask somebody for advice. You don’t have to take their advice, but this is the first level of the relationship and you need to have a broad net because the truth is a lot of the people you talk to, you’re probably not going to connect well with. There’s going to be a personality mismatch or you’re going to see that they’re not a great communicator or they don’t really have that teaching, coaching, mentoring spirit or you find out that what they’ve accomplished is not as close to what you want anyway.

So they’re not all going to be a fit. So you need to have a nice wide net so that you have people as you move up the pyramid to level two to ask for this next level relationship. Which is mentor. Advisor is the [00:13:00] base. Mentor is that second level. So somebody who you’ve gone to for advice multiple times.

You’ve started to build the relationship. They know who you are. They have poured into you on multiple occasions already. that person becomes a great candidate for a mentor. Now, you know what their experiences are, you know, their ability to support and communicate and help you. And if you’re connecting well, your personalities blend, everything’s good.

Great. Maybe your personalities don’t blend, but you just really believe in what this person can help you with. And it’s worth kind of putting up with the awkwardness of the relationship just to have that opportunity. You don’t have to be best friends. You’re looking for a mentor, not somebody to go play golf with every weekend.

So those advisors. As you’ve qualified them as being able to help you and being a great fit for your goals and your vision, then you can ask them to be a mentor. And I encourage you to be intentional about using that word [00:14:00] distinctly. So we’re asking for advice at level one. You’re asking someone to be your mentor at level two.

And I think it’s important to be intentional about this. Lots of engineering leaders I talk to, I’ll ask them if they have a mentor, they’ll tell me yes. And if I say, if that person were in the room, and I ask them to list their mentees, would they put your name on the list? Do they see you as their mentee?

There’s some hesitancy. And they’re like, well, it’s, it’s not a, it’s not a formal relationship, Zach. It’s not like something we’ve agreed, you know, Oh, you’re my mentor. I’m your mentee. This person just knows that they’re my mentor. And I just know that I’m their mentee and I can go to them whenever I need help.

And they have been a mentor to me. That’s what I mean. And I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, but it’s not as powerful a thing as when somebody says, yes, Nathan. I will mentor you. [00:15:00] I will take you on as my mentee. I will pour into you. I will support your development and growth. And I will invest, regularly, time and energy into your success.

That commitment is important. So I think it’s really powerful to go to those people who you’ve been asking for advice, you’ve been building relationship, and you’d say, Hey, look, I can help you with that. I believe that this has been one of the most impactful relationships for my growth of anybody I know, and I would love the opportunity to mentor with you for you to be my mentor for the next year.

Would you be willing to meet with me once a month for the year, just for an hour, and really focus on my growth and development? Now I picked once a month and an hour at random. You can ask for whatever you want to ask for, but to make that official, to make a specific ask that has a time bound, right? For the next six months, for the next year at this cadence for this [00:16:00] time.

And that opens a negotiation. They may say, well, look, I’d love to mentor you, but I don’t have that much time. I’d be willing to meet with you once a quarter for 90 minutes. Or they may say yes to exactly what you propose. Make a specific ask and start building this tribe of mentors. Now I mentioned there’s three levels and we opened today talking about the gap in mentors.

Well, very few engineering leaders ever get a relationship up to level three. You might be able to guess what it is. If level one is advisor, level two is mentor. Where do you think it goes? The answer is sponsorship. Level three, the top of the pyramid in these relationships that support your success is a sponsor.

The difference between a mentor and a sponsor, by the way, Is that a mentor is invested in your success and they’re sharing from their [00:17:00] experience, having accomplished the thing that you want to accomplish. But a sponsor is somebody who goes that extra step of saying, I see that you are ready for the next level or for the next opportunity or to get somewhere.

And I’m going to proactively go to bat for you. In that room where the decisions are being made or to the decision makers and actually say, Nathan is the one I recommend that you move forward on advancing this person’s career. I know them. I’ve seen them growing. We’ve had a lot of conversation. I trust that they are going to be great at this next level, and I’m using my equity, my reputation, right?

My insight to speak into. this person’s career path and growth. A sponsor is a really powerful thing. And again, you might be lucky where a mentor will come to you and say, I’m going to [00:18:00] sponsor you for that next promotion. You’re ready, but that’s rare. Most people Find their sponsors by asking their mentors to sponsor them.

You go and courageously ask, Will you sponsor me? Do you see me as ready? And I want to put my name in that hat. Right? I want to get in the ring for this next opportunity. Will you sponsor me? As I move through this process. That’s a courageous ask to make and the person can say no. It’s, it’s not like the relationship is over if they say no, but if you want them to say yes, you’ve got to ask advisors, move to mentors, move to sponsors.

If you don’t have people at all three levels, then you’re missing out like flat out. You’re, you’re missing out on one of the most important things. used most powerful [00:19:00] tools to help you create the success that you want. If it’s good enough for Tony Robbins, it’s good enough for you and me. So do a quick audit.

Who are the people in your career right now who you can get advice from? Who are the people who are truly mentors for you? And it’s not just a assumed mentorship. It’s a real agreed spoken mentorship commitment between you and that leader. And who is sponsoring you for where you want to get to next. And if any of these levels are empty or there’s only one name, this is a call to action for you.

Go start expanding those people, find folks who have accomplished what you want to accomplish and start asking for that help. The mentorship. Relationship is key to your future success. It begins with advisors, they become mentors, and then a select [00:20:00] few of those relationships will become people that can change the trajectory of your future as sponsors.

Go and build those relationships. I’m doing the same thing. You can do it and start today. Be courageous, make that ask. Don’t get stuck like Nathan did. wondering how to go from zero to sponsor in one move. That’s not how it works. Go create relationships at that low level where it’s nice and easy and then move up the pyramid.

By the way, if you need support on this or anything else, In your own career development, we have new cohorts launching regularly for our signature coaching program, the lifestyle engineering blueprint. We cover this, we cover everything from mindset, purpose, values, priorities, vision, goals, productivity, effectiveness, people, relationships, politics, playbooks, planning strategy.

It’s an incredible opportunity. If [00:21:00] you’d like to get that support and join. a cohort of incredible leaders who are advancing their careers, who are getting results and getting ahead on the things that matter most, not just at work, but in your lifestyle, the balance, avoiding burnout and loving every step of the way.

Jump into the show notes. There’s an opportunity right there where you can get a call. Find out a bit more about where you need to focus the most to accelerate your career, and we can decide together if it’s a fit. For you to join our program or not. And if it is my team will get you on my calendar.

We’ll do a free session for 75 minutes where you and I can go deep and build a complete roadmap of exactly what you need and decide together if being a part of the program is a fit, jump in and check that out. If you want to do it via text, you can do that too. Just grab your phone. You can text the word lifestyle to the number 55444.

It’s just one word lifestyle to 55444. I’ll send you [00:22:00] back a link where you can book that initial chat right there on your phone. It’s super easy. Hope this has been great and useful for you. Go out there and take action. Build these mentorship relationships and let’s do this.  

All right. All right. So Mr. Powell, hope you’re doing great. This will be a quick and easy one. I hope Um very little prep for it. I’m just going to be sharing something that I have recently covered with my mastermind group and um so Yeah, barely prepared at all Definitely full candor, buddy I think the knowing that this is almost the last episode Definitely.

I’m not that you know, it’s like the last week of school You Kind of feeling, you know, you, you know, school’s almost out. There’s not much to do only there’s no final exam here. So I’m definitely sensing that winding down kind of vibe, um, [00:23:00] and didn’t prepare much today, so I hope it comes out great. And yeah, so far things are still on track.

I had the interview for the last episode with a guest. Um, on schedule. And so that one will be coming after this and then one or maybe two more solos to just kind of button up and explain, you know, why I’m pausing and, uh, just sort of celebrate the podcast or whatever. Most likely it’ll just be one, but maybe, maybe I’ll spread that to two.

All right.

Mentors and coaches by far and away are the most impactful. People in my journey when it comes to catalysts for success. [00:24:00] And if you don’t have great mentors today, we’re going to walk through the number one barrier that I see why engineering managers and leaders, even young ICs don’t have great mentors in their career and walk you through a model to understand how these relationships develop so that you can use that and understand that and how you go out and expand that.

The mentors in your life. I was just listening to an interview with Tony Robbins and Jordan Peterson, two of my absolute favorite people to listen to, whether you like them or not, you have to respect what each of them have created and the level of impact that they have in their own domains. Tony Robbins as a coach and Jordan Peterson as a.

A thinker and a brilliant articulate speaker on ideas. Uh, and, and honestly, just a brilliant man and the two of them in the same room. Really fascinated me. But what caught my attention in that interview [00:25:00] was how Tony described to Jordan, his process of becoming great at the myriad things that he has become great at, not just coaching and speaking, but building businesses and having an impact in so many different ways.

And most recently he’s done it in the fields of money and investing and now in health business. And vitality and Tony just continues to have an impact. And when he described that to Jordan, he said, look, I don’t go out and pretend that I’m the best when I want to understand something and I want to then go make an impact in that domain.

The first thing I do is find who is already successful in that area because success leaves clues. One of Tony’s famous quotes, success leaves clues, and he probably got it from Jim Rohn or some coach before him. And he said, look, I, you know, I have access to people because of where I’ve gotten in my life.

And so [00:26:00] in writing his latest book, he went out and found all of the people who have advanced the research and have advanced the knowledge in the area of health and vitality and energy in these spaces. And he, He got together with them, and he talked to them, and he interviewed them, and he asked them question after question after question, and essentially he built his tribe of mentors.

Tony Robbins got to where he got. Through his sheer force of will, of course, but more importantly, the people who he modeled, the people who went before him, the shoulders of giants on which he is standing. And, of course, he took it even further, which is what a great mentor loves to see. A great mentor wants to see their mentees excel beyond the levels that they ever reached.

Well, I That mindset is true for you. It’s true for me, the mentors and the coaches that I work with today are [00:27:00] paving the way to the impact and the success that I will have in engineering and technology as a coach here at the oasis of courage and what I do in private equity investing and what I do as a husband and what I do in my health.

These people who I model after are the ones who are shaping my beliefs, my actions, my strategies, and. The proximity and the access that it creates because of whom spending time with. And for you and your career, the mentors and the coaches that you work with are doing the same thing. And what’s tragic, even though this is true, is how few engineering leaders that I talk to have great mentors.

Many have no mentor at all, which is completely unacceptable. You need to have a great mentor, but many, you know, they have a mentor and it was someone who was assigned to them through some sort of internal [00:28:00] matchmaking program. And they don’t really love that person. They don’t have a great relationship.

They don’t meet with them that often. And it’s not creating a ton of value for their growth. The number one reason I see that blocks people from building these mentorship relationships is honestly. They just don’t know how to ask. They don’t know how to begin. This just came up in a coaching session this past week.

One of the clients in my blueprint program asked the question, how do I ask somebody to be a mentor for me when I don’t even know them? It’s like, well, that’s an interesting question. So first of all, why are you going to people you don’t even know as your first stop for mentors? Well, none of the people I do know fit the category.

They’re not great role models. They don’t have the success that I want. Remember, a mentor is someone who has accomplished the thing that you want to [00:29:00] accomplish and can show you and share with you the way they did it. A mentor has walked the path. A coach may not have walked the path, but they have a skill set to help you create the highest and best success that’s possible for you.

There are different roles. Some people can play the role of both coach and mentor if they have the success and happen to have the skill set of coaching. But remember, they’re not the same thing. Many mentors are not great coaches and lots of your coaches will not be able to mentor you because they’ve not accomplished the thing that you want to accomplish.

So remember they’re different, but you know, Nathan asked me, how do I, how do I ask somebody who I don’t even know to be a mentor because none of the people that I’m connected to in my company are good fits. And these folks that I’m looking at on LinkedIn or in networking groups, they might be the right fit, but it’s very awkward to just go up to somebody and say, Hi, my name is Nathan.

Would you like to be my mentor? It’s [00:30:00] like, nobody wants to do that. And Oh, by the way, you have a job to do and a family to take care of and, you know, grass to cut and a mortgage to pay and all these things. So you’re too busy to go out and build a bunch of relationships to. Find mentors. That’s what everyone believes.

That’s what Nathan felt trapped in. And you might have this same experience. And if not you, then the people who you work with, the people who work for you, might be stuck on the same thing. So pay attention. This belief that you don’t know the right person yet to be your mentor, and that it’s really, inappropriate or uncomfortable to go up to a total stranger and just say, Hey, will you be my mentor?

That creates this mindset, a cage that keeps you stuck without great mentors in your life. And you know, I’m not saying you’re going to be Tony Robbins, but if you want to model after the man who has leveraged modeling and mentorship to the highest level of anybody I’ve ever heard of, then we [00:31:00] can’t let that barrier hold us back.

That’s an unacceptable excuse. Here’s the way to think about building great mentorship in your life. Don’t start by asking someone to be your mentor. The relationship builds across three levels. So imagine a pyramid and the base level of the relationship. With someone who’s going to help you succeed in accomplishing your goals and vision in your career, the base level is not mentor.

And this is where we get it wrong. The base level of the three on this pyramid is advisor. Let’s talk about the difference, a mentor versus an advisor. Anyone will give you advice. Okay, [00:32:00] I literally mean anyone. You can ask anybody for advice. People love to give advice. That does not mean that it’s good advice.

In fact, I love the quote, I think Robert Kawasaki gets credit, but lots of people have said it. Some of the most expensive advice is free advice. So take it for what it’s worth. But advice is the place where the relationship begins. And because anybody is willing to give advice. Uh, or at least anybody can give you advice, it’s okay to go up to a quote unquote stranger and begin a relationship by asking them to be an advisor.

So if I was meeting someone at a networking event in real life and I walked up and I shook their hand and I was really impressed with their background, or maybe they are in the director or VP role that I would like to be in one day. Then in that conversation, I would say, Hey, you know, Nathan, it’s [00:33:00] amazing to connect with you.

And I see you’re a director of engineering at such and such organization. And I would love to be able to do a role like yours in the future. I’m a manager today. Would you be open? To sharing a few tips and some advice with me for maybe 10 minutes in a quick one on one sometime, 10 or 15 minutes, just a quick chat where I could ask you a few questions and get some advice on how to develop and build my skills and my leadership to be ready for a direct role like yours someday.

Now that’s Zach White’s words, use your own words, but a couple of key things about this, right? It’s Hey, I see your success. And what you’ve accomplished is something that I would love to be able to accomplish. And I want to acknowledge you for your success. I want to, you know, just put that on a pedestal for a moment.

And what happens there is you’re, you’re stroking that subconscious [00:34:00] ego a little bit, right? You’re saying, wow, I’ve, I see you, I see what you’ve accomplished. And people in those positions worked hard to get there. And it’s okay to just show some gratitude and show some appreciation for what they’ve accomplished.

And then you come in with this phrase. Hey, would you be open minded to giving me some advice? Would you be willing to share with me some insight? Right. It’s just a very generous ask. It’s a very soft, very open ask where you give them the opportunity to say no, or I’m too busy or, you know, thanks for asking, but not right now.

Right. We give them that opportunity to say no, but here’s what’s so cool. People who have accomplished things like this, if you come with a genuine open spirit and you make a nice small and specific ask, small meaning 10 or 15 minutes, I’m not asking this person who I just met for an hour or half a day, right?

Something that’s really big, just a few minutes of their time. You’ll be amazed at how many people will say yes to that request. [00:35:00] You will be amazed by the way, this works just as well on LinkedIn. You can go on LinkedIn, you can send somebody a connection request. You can comment on their posts. You can engage with somebody who you’ve never met and use the same structure and syntax, you know, Hey, Sarah, it’s amazing what you’ve accomplished.

I was just looking at your profile. Uh, I’m working in a similar industry and I’m a couple of levels behind where you have achieved in your career. And I would love to be able to get into a role like the one that you’re in someday. I know it’s a big ask, but Sarah, would you be open to jumping on a video chat sometime just for five or 10 minutes so I could ask you a few questions and get your advice about how to develop and grow in my career.

If I want to move in a direction like yours, I’m asking for advice. The first level, the bottom level of the pyramid in building these relationships with [00:36:00] people who will support your success. is advisors. You can go to anyone and ask for advice. I encourage you do this regularly, make it a part of the systems and habits of your career.

Every single week, go ask somebody for advice. You don’t have to take their advice, but this is the first level of the relationship and you need to have a broad net because the truth is a lot of the people you talk to, you’re probably not going to connect well with. There’s going to be a personality mismatch or you’re going to see that they’re not a great communicator or they don’t really have that teaching, coaching, mentoring spirit or you find out that what they’ve accomplished is not as close to what you want anyway.

So they’re not all going to be a fit. So you need to have a nice wide net so that you have people as you move up the pyramid to level two to ask for this next level relationship. Which is mentor. [00:37:00] Advisor is the base. Mentor is that second level. So somebody who you’ve gone to for advice multiple times.

You’ve started to build the relationship. They know who you are. They have poured into you on multiple occasions already. that person becomes a great candidate for a mentor. Now, you know what their experiences are, you know, their ability to support and communicate and help you. And if you’re connecting well, your personalities blend, everything’s good.

Great. Maybe your personalities don’t blend, but you just really believe in what this person can help you with. And it’s worth kind of putting up with the awkwardness of the relationship just to have that opportunity. You don’t have to be best friends. You’re looking for a mentor, not somebody to go play golf with every weekend.

So those advisors. As you’ve qualified them as being able to help you and being a great fit for your goals and your vision, then you can ask them to be a mentor. And I encourage you to be intentional about using that [00:38:00] word distinctly. So we’re asking for advice at level one. You’re asking someone to be your mentor at level two.

And I think it’s important to be intentional about this. Lots of engineering leaders I talk to, I’ll ask them if they have a mentor, they’ll tell me yes. And if I say, if that person were in the room, and I ask them to list their mentees, would they put your name on the list? Do they see you as their mentee?

There’s some hesitancy. And they’re like, well, it’s, it’s not a, it’s not a formal relationship, Zach. It’s not like something we’ve agreed, you know, Oh, you’re my mentor. I’m your mentee. This person just knows that they’re my mentor. And I just know that I’m their mentee and I can go to them whenever I need help.

And they have been a mentor to me. That’s what I mean. And I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, but it’s not as powerful a thing as when somebody says, yes, Nathan. I [00:39:00] will mentor you. I will take you on as my mentee. I will pour into you. I will support your development and growth. And I will invest, regularly, time and energy into your success.

That commitment is important. So I think it’s really powerful to go to those people who you’ve been asking for advice, you’ve been building relationship, and you’d say, Hey, look, I can help you with that. I believe that this has been one of the most impactful relationships for my growth of anybody I know, and I would love the opportunity to mentor with you for you to be my mentor for the next year.

Would you be willing to meet with me once a month for the year, just for an hour, and really focus on my growth and development? Now I picked once a month and an hour at random. You can ask for whatever you want to ask for, but to make that official, to make a specific ask that has a time bound, right? For the next six months, for the next year at this [00:40:00] cadence for this time.

And that opens a negotiation. They may say, well, look, I’d love to mentor you, but I don’t have that much time. I’d be willing to meet with you once a quarter for 90 minutes. Or they may say yes to exactly what you propose. Make a specific ask and start building this tribe of mentors. Now I mentioned there’s three levels and we opened today talking about the gap in mentors.

Well, very few engineering leaders ever get a relationship up to level three. You might be able to guess what it is. If level one is advisor, level two is mentor. Where do you think it goes? The answer is sponsorship. Level three, the top of the pyramid in these relationships that support your success is a sponsor.

The difference between a mentor and a sponsor, by the way, Is that a mentor is invested in your success and they’re sharing [00:41:00] from their experience, having accomplished the thing that you want to accomplish. But a sponsor is somebody who goes that extra step of saying, I see that you are ready for the next level or for the next opportunity or to get somewhere.

And I’m going to proactively go to bat for you. In that room where the decisions are being made or to the decision makers and actually say, Nathan is the one I recommend that you move forward on advancing this person’s career. I know them. I’ve seen them growing. We’ve had a lot of conversation. I trust that they are going to be great at this next level, and I’m using my equity, my reputation, right?

My insight to speak into. this person’s career path and growth. A sponsor is a really powerful thing. And again, you might be lucky where a mentor will come to you and say, [00:42:00] I’m going to sponsor you for that next promotion. You’re ready, but that’s rare. Most people Find their sponsors by asking their mentors to sponsor them.

You go and courageously ask, Will you sponsor me? Do you see me as ready? And I want to put my name in that hat. Right? I want to get in the ring for this next opportunity. Will you sponsor me? As I move through this process. That’s a courageous ask to make and the person can say no. It’s, it’s not like the relationship is over if they say no, but if you want them to say yes, you’ve got to ask advisors, move to mentors, move to sponsors.

If you don’t have people at all three levels, then you’re missing out like flat out. You’re, you’re missing out on one of the most important things. used [00:43:00] most powerful tools to help you create the success that you want. If it’s good enough for Tony Robbins, it’s good enough for you and me. So do a quick audit.

Who are the people in your career right now who you can get advice from? Who are the people who are truly mentors for you? And it’s not just a assumed mentorship. It’s a real agreed spoken mentorship commitment between you and that leader. And who is sponsoring you for where you want to get to next. And if any of these levels are empty or there’s only one name, this is a call to action for you.

Go start expanding those people, find folks who have accomplished what you want to accomplish and start asking for that help. The mentorship. Relationship is key to your future success. It begins with advisors, they [00:44:00] become mentors, and then a select few of those relationships will become people that can change the trajectory of your future as sponsors.

Go and build those relationships. I’m doing the same thing. You can do it and start today. Be courageous, make that ask. Don’t get stuck like Nathan did. wondering how to go from zero to sponsor in one move. That’s not how it works. Go create relationships at that low level where it’s nice and easy and then move up the pyramid.

By the way, if you need support on this or anything else, In your own career development, we have new cohorts launching regularly for our signature coaching program, the lifestyle engineering blueprint. We cover this, we cover everything from mindset, purpose, values, priorities, vision, goals, productivity, effectiveness, people, relationships, politics, playbooks, planning strategy.

[00:45:00] It’s an incredible opportunity. If you’d like to get that support and join. a cohort of incredible leaders who are advancing their careers, who are getting results and getting ahead on the things that matter most, not just at work, but in your lifestyle, the balance, avoiding burnout and loving every step of the way.

Jump into the show notes. There’s an opportunity right there where you can get a call. Find out a bit more about where you need to focus the most to accelerate your career, and we can decide together if it’s a fit. For you to join our program or not. And if it is my team will get you on my calendar.

We’ll do a free session for 75 minutes where you and I can go deep and build a complete roadmap of exactly what you need and decide together if being a part of the program is a fit, jump in and check that out. If you want to do it via text, you can do that too. Just grab your phone. You can text the word lifestyle to the number 55444.

It’s just one word lifestyle to [00:46:00] 55444. I’ll send you back a link where you can book that initial chat right there on your phone. It’s super easy. Hope this has been great and useful for you. Go out there and take action. Build these mentorship relationships and let’s do this.