184: Give Me 90 Days and I’ll Give You a Career Transformation with Bruno Yoshioka | Principal Manager at Microsoft

[00:00:14] Zach White: So Bruno, we first connected, I had to go back in my notes because it’s been a little while we chatted for the first time back in December of 2023, which.

[00:00:25] You know, it’s not terribly long ago, but it, it feels like just the other day that we connected. at the time we were talking about you jumping into and being a part of our lifestyle engineering blueprint coaching program. And we did that in Q1 this year. And a lot has happened in our time together and in your journey.

[00:00:43] But before we go through everything that you’ve experienced in your own growth, I think it’d be helpful if we could set the stage. so much. Of leading up to that, what kind of engineering you do, some of your career path and lead us up to that moment of December last year when we first connected. So give us the two minute drill.

[00:01:01] What have you been up to? What’s your engineering background and roles leading up to that point in time when we met? 

[00:01:08] Bruno Yoshioka: I’ve been working at Microsoft for the last 10 years. I’ve recently celebrated my 10 year anniversary. It was my first job out of college, and I’ve been in the same organization working in the same space for my whole career.

[00:01:21] So when I first started off, I was working on a team called Configuration Manager, focused on enterprise device management. And just a couple of years ago, was re org’d over into team that also is in the same business called Microsoft Intune, also working on device management, but in the cloud. So there’s a shift from on prem software to cloud software, and I work on the software engineering side today.

[00:01:45] I’m a principal software engineering manager. I manage a team of currently 5. it’s been anywhere from 5 to 7 folks over the last few years, and that’s been a great experience for me and kind of leading up to signing up for the blueprint program. I was actually out of work for a few months. My daughter was born last year in February, and it was just an amazing time during my life.

[00:02:12] And I took some time off, kind of mid September through the end of the year. thinking about coming back to work was a little bit scary, because before I went on that leave, I felt a little bit burnt out. Things were getting a little bit crazy and I was super stressed. had a lot of concern about coming back to work in January and the new year and how that was going to go.

[00:02:34] And those are some of the early thoughts just around, 

[00:02:38] Zach White: you know, 

[00:02:38] Bruno Yoshioka: I need a change and I would love to get some help coming, coming back to work. 

[00:02:43] Zach White: So before we pull that Next step thread coming back to the 10 years leading up to now. Congratulations, by the way, 10 years at Microsoft. Would you really quickly walk through the promotion cadence or role cadence, just for people who might be in that career path and want to know how fast to expect those things or what that was like, would you consider yourself a.

[00:03:07] You know, top performer who moved quickly through the ranks. Were there times when you wished you were going faster? Kind of how those levels played out, especially when you had your first manager role. When did that happen in your personal growth journey? 

[00:03:21] Bruno Yoshioka: my overall career trajectory and in terms of promotion, I, I feel as it was a bit fast, to be honest for quite a long time.

[00:03:31] And the early, early levels leading up to getting to senior engineer. I moved fairly quickly. I think it was, uh,probably on average, about a year in between promotions up to senior and then the senior to where I am today, which is principle is usually that that takes a longer period of time for everyone.

[00:03:49] Typically, it’s just a much more rigorous path to get into that principle title, and I’ve been a manager now for almost 4. 5 years. I became I became a manager. I think. Two weeks before the pandemic really started, and I remember having one meeting with my team, and then we were immediately sent home to go figure out the whole work from home situation.

[00:04:10] And at that point, I was mid senior level I reached that principle level. It was last year around, uh, kind of March timeframe. Um, yeah, overall, even, even for that one, I felt it was, it was fairly quick, uh, getting to that promotion. So, overall, I feel like my trajectory was, was a quick trajectory for working at Microsoft.

[00:04:35] and even getting to the manager role. was very quick. I did do a lot of work leading up to that, talking with my manager, talking with other folks on the team about my desire to be in that role. And that’s really what helped me eventually land that job. 

[00:04:50] Zach White: We’ve seen, other members of the OAKO community that, you know, Aaron Hensler is one who comes to mind, Jake Maxey, who’ve been on this podcast as well in previous episodes, top talent, rapid progression leaders in their careers.

[00:05:05] And for some reason, I think there’s a bias. Externally top talent, people, high performers don’t need coaching around things like burnout. And you know, they’re, they’ve got it. Coaching is for the underperformers. Coaching is for people who don’t know what they want to do with their life. And the folks like Bruno and Jake and Aaron, you know, they’ve got it together.

[00:05:29] They know what’s going on. And I guess, what would you say in response to that? And you can only speak from your own experience, but is there any correlation or is there any. Mindset that’s just broken around how people think about themselves and their career trajectory versus whether they do or don’t need to get help in their careers, or maybe they’re feeling shamed about burnout or what, what’s been your experience with that link between trajectory and these other challenges?

[00:06:00] Like you faced, 

[00:06:02] Bruno Yoshioka: I think it’s really hard to progress quickly alone. you really need support around you in some form, whether it’s. Mentorship or good relationships with managers or being on teams that really foster growth and really listen to individuals about what they want in their career and how they want to grow.

[00:06:22] And that’s really important. The culture aspect is super important for me and something that I’ve been very fortunate to have throughout my career, I see people early in career sometimes make the mistake of, well, if I just work really hard or I, burn the midnight oil, then that’s going to get me everything I ever want in my life.

[00:06:40] And that works for some period of time. And eventually I don’t, I don’t think that works like life changes and your circumstance changes. And if you don’t change with it. And you’re just going back to the same old habits and doing the same things over and over.

[00:06:55] I think you find yourself in those situations where you do burn out or you don’t understand why things aren’t working when they used to work before. it’s that idea of, you know, what got you here won’t get you there. and I think that concept is really important to understand. 

[00:07:11] Zach White: So your daughter is born in February.

[00:07:13] Okay. The environment between work and home and the balance of these pieces started to creep towards burning out. And you mentioned then you took the parental leave for a few months. Was that a, a reaction to I’m burning out, I need to go ahead and take the leave, or had that already been planned for that time?

[00:07:36] And it just so happened that leading up to it, the burnout increased. What was going on in terms of the decision making at that time? 

[00:07:44] Bruno Yoshioka: I had that leave and the timing of it planned pretty well in advance. I had been discussing with my family and discussing with my manager about, when would work and how I could, I could make things work well.

[00:07:55] So the timing I already knew, I knew that around maybe March or, or April of last year. And leading up to that time. I remember having days of feeling like, I just need to get to my leave. Just get to the leave, yeah. Yeah, I just need to get to that time off. I thought that would solve, all of my problems, and I would have this break from work and things would be great.

[00:08:17] And then what I realized is I spent so much time during my time off just trying to get that dopamine. So it was, you know, me investing a lot of time in hobbies and doing things that weren’t necessarily productive for my personal growth.

[00:08:34] It was just, you know, I’m gonna go home, and I’m gonna play video games, and like, yeah, I’m taking care of my daughter, and doing these other things, and taking responsibility for things around the house, but there was this feeling of I wanted to just escape from So Reality to some degree, and it just didn’t.

[00:08:52] It’s not sustainable. You can’t do that forever. That’s what was missing in my life was that forward progress and that sense of progress and, uh, and really figuring out how to solve, like, the actual problem of, like, being overwhelmed and being burnt out.

[00:09:06] Um, so that burnout really was something that happened throughout the year leading up to when I took my time off and. it became difficult because of circumstances around some of the work that was happening, just a lot of changes in my personal life happening, so, a combination of many different things.

[00:09:25] Sure, yeah. Combinating together. 

[00:09:28] Zach White: This idea that we can vacate burnout. Or take a leave and somehow by removing myself from what I believe is the environment that’s causing the burnout. And for most of us as engineering leaders, that’s work. If I could just get out of work for a while, go to Cancun for a spring break or take some time and go camping or whatever, then I’ll recharge.

[00:09:54] I’ll recover. And then everything’s going to be fine if I can just get to that vacation. If I can just get to my leave, then I can breathe and then it’ll be fine. It’ll be good. Bruno, you know, now, and I’ve seen over and over again, it’s like you can’t vacate burnout. it doesn’t just go away because you go on a vacation.

[00:10:15] And even if you can numb it out or distract yourself, and maybe you do have a great time on your trip. When you come back, you come right back into. Those same challenges that same conditioning in yourself and what’s interesting then about your story and what I want to know is How did you become aware of that need to take action before you actually went back to work?

[00:10:40] Because we’ve had lots of people do the program who try to solve the burnout problem and can’t, and then they end up back at work burned out again and, and then they work with us. but you were asking about coaching and support in December before you’d actually gone back to work. So what actually was going on in your head that led you to say, All right.

[00:11:00] I better put that support system in place before day one. 

[00:11:05] Bruno Yoshioka: I really wanted to come back and have more renewed energy, I wanted to come back and be excited about work before I went on that leave, I just wasn’t excited about work a lot of days and that’s kind of what led me down path of, joining the program and going through that.

[00:11:21] And what really helped me a lot was a lot of the early discussions just around the That was super critical for me. It’s still very critical today. It’s super important to me both. as I thought more about the learnings and the modules, I just became more aware of my thoughts and I became aware of, when I was having stronger emotions or I was really upset about something, um, Really stepping back and saying, why is this happening?

[00:11:49] Like, what is the cause of this? Because I have control over my reactions to what’s happening around me. And I’m reacting a certain way for some reason. So I started to just develop a better understanding of that, uh, early on leading up to when I went back to work. And then I also, the idea around just coaching in general, because I was skeptical initially about the whole process.

[00:12:16] Um, Had you ever 

[00:12:17] Zach White: been coached or worked with coaching before you and I worked together? 

[00:12:22] Bruno Yoshioka: Not really. I’d had one off coaching sessions with someone at work. Um, but nothing consistent, nothing on a regular basis. Okay. 

[00:12:31] Zach White: okay. So this was the first big foray into saying, all right, I’m, I’m going to make an investment and really go after, okay.

[00:12:38] I appreciate the candor there. And so speak to the skepticism a little bit, like, like what were the kinds of things you were unsure of? Is it like, Why does this, or how does it work? Or what were the kinds of questions you were asking yourself at that time? 

[00:12:51] Bruno Yoshioka: A lot of it was

[00:12:52] Who is this person who doesn’t know me? How are they going to help me? They don’t know my background. They don’t know what I’ve been through, what I’ve gone through, et cetera. Sure. And. it’s similar to, people have skepticism about things like therapy, and I think it’s a lot of the same questions that I have, around therapy as well, but yeah, that was a lot of the skepticism is how can somebody who doesn’t know me at all, how are they going to provide input that’s going to make a meaningful difference in my life?

[00:13:19] just that feeling of I need someone closer to me, or I need somebody who has seen me day in, day out and seen my experience. but then I learned that wasn’t really the reality. That’s not really how coaching works. 

[00:13:33] Zach White: I remember my first coach in that same decision and as an engineer, especially feeling very skeptical.

[00:13:39] This was a long time ago and I’ve obviously gotten over it and I am a coach now, but yeah, it is weird because we have this preconceived notion that. Somehow, if they’re not in my lived experience, how are they going to help me forward? And you’re right. it actually doesn’t matter at all what background you came from in engineering leading up to our interaction on day one for what we can do together.

[00:14:01] So why don’t you share then let’s peel the curtain back a little bit. If we were to look at those. first three months of going through the blueprint program. the big goals you had? You mentioned one earlier. I want to come back into work with energy and momentum, avoid falling into burnout or imbalance and some of that anxiety that was going on it.

[00:14:24] I’m curious, what else were you hoping to take away in terms of goals from the program? And then what were the big levers that really helped you in creating those outcomes? 

[00:14:37] Bruno Yoshioka: One thing I was really looking for was just more clarity on what I wanted in life and what the vision looked like and the direction I was going because I felt a bit, I definitely felt lost in that area of not having that clarity of what I wanted.

[00:14:54] So that’s something that I was able to get more clarity on throughout the program, which is great. And things have evolved Even Throughout this whole year, things have changed throughout the year, just based on, things that have happened at work and things that have happened at home.

[00:15:09] but I’ve been able to understand it much better just through the content that I’ve learned through the program, which is great. And then another goal that I didn’t necessarily have initially, but then ended up having kind of partway through the program is really just around prioritizing my physical health.

[00:15:27] And that’s been such a massive priority for me this year. And I’ve been working really, really hard at that for the last six months. and that’s also been an amazing journey to go through. 

[00:15:39] Zach White: What do you see as the link between physical health as a focus and your career success and Energy at work. How do they support each other?

[00:15:49] Or what’s been your experience of working on one versus the other, maybe the complimentary nature of that? Cause it happens all the time where somebody comes in for career support and we end up having these big wins in personal life. What’s been your experience there? 

[00:16:03] Bruno Yoshioka: getting more regular exercise and.

[00:16:06] going through a good amount of weight loss and just having that movement making my body stronger, lot of benefits mentally for exercise just being healthier overall, too. my energy levels in general have been higher throughout this year and overall more more positive mindset, more positive outlook.

[00:16:26] It’s been a lot easier for me to. have stronger awareness of what’s happening in my mind and what’s happening around me. So I really believe that the focus on physical health has helped with that as well. So yeah, a lot of great benefits, not just not just physical health benefits, but also mental health benefits.

[00:16:48] Zach White: What changed for you in terms of balance? And we talked about the burnout was present before the leave. You caught yourself in the seeking dopamine, not really solving anything during the leave, and now we come back to work. What were the changes or the things that made the difference for you in creating a whole life balance?

[00:17:10] Bruno Yoshioka: A big part of it was when I had more clarity on my vision and, and, on my purpose. I was able to look at what are the experiences that I’m having at work? And how do those experiences, how do they tie to my vision? How do they tie to my purpose? And how can I create more experiences that actually match better with, my purpose and with my values and what I actually care about and how I want to grow?

[00:17:37] That, that was a big part of it because then my quality of work was better. And I was having a lot more experiences that were really positive at work. And I realized I was able to take more control over it like I could tangibly go and do things that I really enjoyed at work and make that difference.

[00:17:55] So that was really great. And then I’ve always been a believer in having boundaries. overall I’ve done a pretty good job at having boundaries this year. I had saw a lot of challenges in May early June. That’s a really, busy time for managers at Microsoft.

[00:18:10] there was a little bit of falling back into old habits then, but having boundaries for me has been so positive and has been really helpful. 

[00:18:19] Zach White: Let’s, dig into both of those with some examples, because I remember our text threads and some of our coaching conversations during these times, especially the May, June timeframe.

[00:18:33] If we go back to your first example, when I got clear on my purpose and my vision. I was able to reshape some of my experience at work to increase the quality of my life at work, which when that’s easier and better and more positive, it makes life at home easier and better and more positive. What’s a specific example?

[00:18:53] First thing that comes to mind where, because I’m more clear and my vision and values and purpose in my work life, this is what I shifted or this is what I changed. Can you explain what that might actually look like? 

[00:19:07] Bruno Yoshioka: A big change that I made was to really focus in on being a better coach for my direct reports.

[00:19:15] realized that for a long time, I was taking more of a mentorship approach. It was more of a, okay, you’re coming to me with a problem. Here’s how, here’s what I would do in your situation. And I began to take this approach of just asking more questions and having my direct reports think through how would they solve the problem or what are the tools that they know.

[00:19:38] And what I saw in that is that it started to, they were unlocking more potential from themselves. 

[00:19:44] that’s where I landed on my purpose is I really want to help people reach more of their potential. So that was a big shift where I got so much satisfaction from that and I was doing things in a different way.

[00:19:56] And I was seeing. Effective results, coming back to work and really implementing more of that coaching mindset. 

[00:20:04] Zach White: I think a lot of people hear the word purpose, Bruno, and they think that it means the specific. tangible vision of the work that they’re doing. So is my purpose to be a mechanical engineer or is my purpose in life to be an artist?

[00:20:19] And they think about their vocation or the things that they’re doing during the day as their purpose. And we look at that through a different lens. In the oasis of courage and the blueprint program and our approach. And I’m wondering how does that actually connect to the idea of being an engineer?

[00:20:37] it’s not like you discovered that your purpose was to quit engineering and become a coach. It was. It was. Help people. And you realized by coaching your team more, you could bring that purpose to life. So can you describe how that’s come into your own awareness and understanding what is purpose really for you?

[00:20:58] Bruno Yoshioka: Yeah. Purpose for me is really, it’s where I find my passion of both what I enjoy doing and how I can make a difference in the world. And I landed very strongly on on the idea of unlocking potential that’s at the core of what I see as my purpose, but that can manifest in many different ways.

[00:21:21] It can manifest in for me as a manager. I’m leading a team of people, so there’s the aspect of I’m unlocking potential for my direct reports and finding ways to Help them grow in their careers and achieve the dreams and goals that they have. And I also see it in the perspective of the products that we build for customers.

[00:21:43] We’re unlocking potential for customers to be able to use our software in better ways to increase productivity for their employees. So there’s different ways to apply your purpose to different aspects of work or even for life. being a parent now, there’s this idea of unlocking more potential in my daughter and what am I doing with her?

[00:22:07] How is she learning? What are things that I can do as a parent to do that? So it,having that clarity allows me to think about how does everything in my work and my life and everything that I’m doing, how does it tie back to that purpose? 

[00:22:21] Zach White: So good. as a parent, you can do it as an engineering leader.

[00:22:26] You can do it and you’re doing it right now, Bruno, through your story and helping engineers in the world who may hear this conversation. To see something in themselves. They may not have seen if they hadn’t heard your unique version of growth and the journey. So yeah, purpose is such a powerful North star when we can really anchor to this.

[00:22:47] And we talk a lot about, you know, the difference intrinsically when you’re living on purpose versus when your life starts to drift and you’re acting and living in a way that’s off purpose. But until we do that work, it’s hard to really describe that or understand why it’s happening. But once it’s there.

[00:23:05] It really is empowering to know, Oh, wow, I’m a way off purpose here. If I can make these shifts, everything changes. You mentioned boundaries, the best intended engineering leader, whether you’re coaching with Zach White or not, we all face the moments, the exceptions or the, the pressure to where the boundaries break, or we fall off the wagon, we stop honoring them or necessity.

[00:23:30] We might argue creeps in from an ask from a boss or Busy season with performance reviews, whatever it is. So when boundaries get tested, how do you approach that and how do you pull yourself back to the mean, so to speak, or just share, what do you do when your boundaries get broken?

[00:23:51] Bruno Yoshioka: It’s really easy when boundaries get broken to just put blame and it’s easy to go and say like, well, you know, this person at work said I have to do this thing or under the circumstances of my company and the way things happen, these things have to happen.

[00:24:06] But I think the reality for me during, during some of the challenging times in May and June, it was really about I, I made certain choices and they led to an undesired experience. so much. And if I could go back in time with the knowledge I have now, I would make different choices, right? I made choices to keep my calendar more full than it probably needed to be.

[00:24:30] And I probably could have cleared one on one time with my direct reports, and they would have totally understood. I get it. You’re busy. You have stuff you need to get done. yeah, we can meet next week. That’s totally fine. I’m sure there were many other opportunities for me make changes.

[00:24:46] And it’s also about the accountability behind it is I was the person who ultimately was impacted by the choices that I ended up making, and I have accountability to myself because no one else is living my life. I’m the one who needs to reflect back and think about, what do I do different?

[00:25:04] Or how can I work with people to make things different? so that’s another really important aspect is that the accountability part of it, of take responsibility for what has happened. Don’t just always go straight to blame say that other people cause the problem. 

[00:25:19] Zach White: The idea of mindset keeps coming up through this conversation and I’ve seen and witnessed your transformation of this, not that you did not have a great mindset when we met.

[00:25:32] But wow, have you just consistently leaning into that mindset work and getting to where you’re conditioning yourself to reflect and take accountability and responsibility as a default rather than to blame or become a victim as a default, et cetera. And you mentioned right at the beginning of this, how important mindset was to your growth.

[00:25:54] So what’s the single most beneficial mindset shift or mindset shift? Activity mindset work that you do or, or lean into on a day to day basis right now, what are you focused on? 

[00:26:08] Bruno Yoshioka: I’m really focused on not focusing on the failures. Okay. That’s a huge thing for me right now. it’s this shift from fixed mindset into growth mindset of rather than focusing on failures or focusing on the potential for failure.

[00:26:24] It’s really about what are my learnings? What actions do I take from those learnings? And run those experiments and see what happens, take the actions, reflect on what happened, iterate on it. And it’s, it’s really similar to a lot of engineering processes, but we don’t, maybe people don’t think about it that way, but it is, don’t focus on the failure.

[00:26:47] What happened has happened, take the learnings, move forward, take action, improve. 

[00:26:53] Zach White: Yeah, how does that actually look in real life? I think this is a place where people get lost when we talk about mindset. it’s gets very heady It’s sort of a an idea but somewhere at some point, you’re doing a journaling exercise or you’re doing a reflection or a meditation or a something to do the work on your mindset.

[00:27:14] What does that actually show up as in your life? I know there’s a lot of different tools and methods that we coach and work through, but which ones have you held onto that have made the biggest difference in creating those shifts? 

[00:27:27] Bruno Yoshioka: Yeah. I think like one example that comes to mind really clearly is, I was on vacation recently for a couple of weeks and.

[00:27:34] Around my goals for physical health diets really important. And I let myself go a little bit during that that time off. And then even after I got back from vacation, it was still my diet wasn’t great. I didn’t really fix it. I got back three weeks ago at this point. I had a day where I was reflecting like yesterday.

[00:27:54] I really I over ate too much and I was snacking a lot and. Why did I do that? And it was that realization that, I did that because I felt good about it. Like it made me feel good, but I’m going back to this old habit of like overeating and not focusing on my goal and not focusing on my diet.

[00:28:13] and I told myself, well, if you keep down this path, then you won’t achieve your goal. And is that really what you want? And is that really worth it? and that’s been something that’s been, sticking with me the last couple of weeks and getting me back on track. And this week I feel a lot better about diet and where I’m at today.

[00:28:30] but that was a, just a tangible lesson of wow, yeah, I’m not working towards my goal if I keep doing this. Yeah. So what needs to change? Well, my learning is I need to not do that. How do I do that? I can start to build in some habits. So, one habit that I I’ve taken on this week is. If I feel like snacking, I’m just going to go put my workout clothes on, and we’re just going to jump on the treadmill and go work out, right?

[00:28:54] And then I won’t feel, I won’t feel like snacking afterwards. And so, it’s moments like that where Or that principle really makes a difference. 

[00:29:02] Zach White: Uh, first of all, that’s a, an incredible example of a, when, then syntax habit where that trigger you’ll, when I get snacky, then I’m getting right on the treadmill, so empowering.

[00:29:17] But the other reason I love that example from you, Bruno is I think so many engineering leaders who frankly are not as. High in terms of scope and demand enroll as where you’re at there. Relatively junior engineers, or, they don’t have the pressure that is on you to deliver who think that’s not possible.

[00:29:38] They’re so busy. There’s no way that I could possibly take a quick break to work out in the middle of the day, because I must be in front of the computer every single minute. I must respond to that email as fast as possible. And. I won’t argue or judge someone’s perspective, maybe there is someone out there that’s a reality for them, with the choices they’ve made, but I don’t think so.

[00:30:01] I’m pretty sure, I’m pretty sure there’s more room to choose that lifestyle than people believe if we would have the courage to choose it. Thinking forward, where will this lead you?

[00:30:17] What do you feel like is unlocked for you in the future because of the work you’ve done within yourself and the trajectory that you’ve created? What are you excited about? Where does the road lead for you now? 

[00:30:31] Bruno Yoshioka: I’m really excited about just continuing to make my body stronger continuing to improve my physical health.

[00:30:37] That’s super exciting for me. for work, there’s been some changes recently to some things at work and I’m still in my same role, but working with a different group of people working on some, some different types of projects. And so I’m looking forward to building new relationships and working with different people.

[00:30:54] And it’s just increasing that scope of influence, going back to my purpose on how do I unlock the potential for more people and growing in in that role? Um, yeah. And then I, you know, I’ve just recently been having this feeling of, like, I think anything is really possible. If there’s something that I want to go do, I think I could go figure out how to do it, or I could find the right support network and figure out how to do it.

[00:31:20] And so that just that hope that hopeful feeling of, yeah, if there’s something that I desire now, I have, some of that scaffolding for how I can tackle it. as I learn, I can raise my awareness, do my introspection, retrospection, and continue to learn and continue to grow, and having all of that backing me, it’s crazy.

[00:31:43] Sometimes you kind of feel invincible or it’s like nothing is too big to, to accomplish. Yeah. You know? 

[00:31:48] Zach White: Yes. , I love that. One of the most common words I hear from engineering leaders that. Reach out to me for the consideration of joining the program is that they feel stuck and trapped or plateaued or flat all these words that describe the idea of a, they’re not growing and B, there’s this ceiling.

[00:32:11] There’s this cage that they’re stuck inside where growth in the future doesn’t feel possible. And so what you just described, it’s like the exact opposite of that. not only am I on an upward trajectory, but it truly feels like whatever I decide to aim at is possible for me, that’s an amazing place to live from.

[00:32:33] I’m congratulations. That’s so great. I mean, there’s not really a question there, but would you, is that, does that describe it well, would you add anything to that? 

[00:32:44] Bruno Yoshioka: there’s, there’s this idea that like money doesn’t necessarily equal freedom, this feeling of being able to accomplish anything really feels a lot more like freedom, if that’s what you’re searching for in life.

[00:32:57] Zach White: Mm.

[00:32:58] Bruno, if you were speaking back to the version of you pre Coaching and doing all this. and if the skepticism was still present and it was going to hold you back, so somebody is on the fence and the skepticism is winning, they want to go alone, or you would rather go on another vacation than invest in themselves.

[00:33:22] In the kind of tools and support and community and coaching that you’ve experienced, what would you tell that person now, or tell yourself if you saw that? The skepticism was winning with what you know now, what would you encourage or share with that person? 

[00:33:39] Bruno Yoshioka: Probably ask the question. What are you scared of?

[00:33:44] Or what are you worried about? Or what’s the worst thing that can happen? And, you know, if it’s a, if it’s a money thing, I can, I can understand to some degree. But if it’s not, and it’s really just, uh, I think you need to ask yourself, Maybe why you’re not doing it or what you’re afraid of and what the potential downside would be.

[00:34:03] you never know until you, you do it and you see what the result is. And if it’s not for you, then you learn that it’s not for you. And that’s also a great learning. I tell my team this a lot, that when you run experiments and you do new things, You always win because if you succeed and then you succeed, and if you don’t, then well, you learn something.

[00:34:23] And now you know that, if that’s not for you. 

[00:34:25] Zach White: Yes. My wife and I love coaching obviously, and we’ve invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into coaching between us in recent years.And some of those investments in the tens of thousands have not panned out.

[00:34:42] We would reflect back and say, That was a major bust. I wish I hadn’t done it. But that little nugget of I wish I hadn’t is immediately followed by I’m so glad I did. because now I’m ready for the next thing and I can make a better decision about the coach I need next. And all of those misses have led me to the things that have had 10 and 20 and 100 X return in my life.

[00:35:12] And I would not skip any of those decisions. So I think to your point, even on the money thing, You can run the risk of quote unquote, wasting the money, but that’s just a mindset to who says it’s wasted. What if the exact intention was to learn? And I I’ve come to that point now of, I celebrate the failed coaching as much as the successful coaching, because I can still learn about myself regardless of what happens with the coach, not to say a great coaches and yeah, of course you want a great coach, but in a way, if you come into it with that right energy, it almost doesn’t matter.

[00:35:46] Bruno Yoshioka: Um, yeah. 

[00:35:49] Zach White: Wow, Bruno, this is amazing. is there anything else for you that you just think is, is the golden nugget of wisdom that, that you want everybody to know, like, this is the thing that has made a difference for me, your parting words of wisdom from all the work you’ve done these last, you know, seven months, what, what’s the first thing that pops to mind?

[00:36:10] Bruno Yoshioka: I’ve been thinking about appreciating assets and depreciating assets, and I thought that came to mind recently for me was, you know, if I go and I take money and I put it in the stock market and it grows over time and history says it’s going to grow over time, it feels really passive.

[00:36:27] Well, you know, the only action I took is I put this money into the stock market. Cool. I don’t think that human beings are that way. I don’t think that we as people can just say, well, I’m just not going to do anything and everything’s going to get better. And if you, my belief is, if you really want to make yourself an appreciating asset, you have to do something, you have to take action, and it’s not enough to just be passive and see what happens.

[00:36:55] That goes back to that idea of you’re going to live on accident. Things will happen around you. Things will happen to you. Rather than you living on purpose and moving your life forward the way that you want and working towards the desires that you have in your life. So that’s to me that I think that’s one of the biggest takeaways is go take action, make yourself an appreciating asset over time, through that action and reap the benefits of that growth over time.

[00:37:24] Zach White: That’s so good. And I’ll tell you what, Bruno, you as a human have an asymmetric profile of risk. The upside is unlimited, and the downside is just that. What you were going to use for other things. Anyway, the time and energy and money, you were going to spend it one way or the other, it’s like either sits in a bank account or you’ve spent it on vacation or, or you could invest in yourself.

[00:37:49] So I’ll take an asymmetric upside risk when it comes to investing as an entrepreneur and investor. It’s like, I can’t think of a better risk than to bet on myself. Yeah. So, so good. Bruno, if somebody is listening to this conversation, They want to understand more about your incredible career success or just connect with you and follow up.

[00:38:10] Is there a way people who would love to know more follow your journey that they can connect with you? 

[00:38:16] Bruno Yoshioka: Come find me on LinkedIn. You can search for me and you’ll find my profile. Feel free to send me a message. Just connect with me. I’ve actually been getting a lot of connection requests recently, and.

[00:38:26] Been helping people with, you know, things like resume reviews and chatting with people about, career building and things like that. So if you’re interested in those topics, come chat and we’ll find some time, or we can message back and forth and we’d love to help. 

[00:38:40] Zach White: Okay. Amazing. We will put.

[00:38:43] Bruno’s LinkedIn URL in the show notes. Happy engineers. So click through and find Bruno on LinkedIn, connect with him, let him know in your message that you heard him here on the podcast so he can prioritize those connection requests and thanks so much for your generosity with that. That’s just tremendous.

[00:39:03] You know, very well where we end. On this podcast, every time as a longtime fan and member of the blueprint program in a Waco family, Bruno, and how important asking great questions is in our life, if we want great answers. So what would be for you, the question you would lead the happy engineer with coming out of this chat today?

[00:39:27] Bruno Yoshioka: What’s preventing you from getting what you desire? And that’s a great question to ask yourself and just amp up that awareness of understanding what’s really preventing you from making progress towards your goals, towards your desires. Maybe it’s lack of clarity. Maybe it’s something that you need to remove from your calendar.

[00:39:47] Maybe it’s, going and actually working out tomorrow or today, whatever it is.you know, that’s a great question to ask yourself and continue to ask yourself. 

[00:39:59] Zach White: What is preventing you from getting what you desire? Tremendous. Bruno, thanks again for your generosity, sharing your story, your wisdom with the happy engineers out there.

[00:40:10] It’s been an absolute honor to be your coach and friend in this journey. And I am fully betting on you in the upside of your vision. I know you’re going to do tremendous things and help a lot of people along the way. So thanks again for being here, man. 

[00:40:27] Bruno Yoshioka: Thank you for having me. It’s been a great discussion.