186: The 8 Bad Moods that Block Happiness at Work with Matt O’Neill

[00:00:24] Zach White: I felt it. The moment we got on the call today, it was like I almost had to hang up and call my mom just to see. Just to see, is there something I didn’t know? Is there something I didn’t know? And for those who don’t see YouTube, it’s, it could, we could pass. I mean, it’s not a perfect fit, but Absolutely, man.

[00:00:40] Yeah, yeah, we got, we got that part of the thing. Matt, I’m so excited for you to be here because you are not just genius and impacting the world in this idea of The importance of happiness and how to experience happiness, but you’re living it in a way that very few, you know, I’ll use air quotes, kind of guru type people who are out there clogging the Internet and social media with their posts and content 

[00:01:04] And I thought it’d be interesting first before we talk about what you’re doing now. To go back and just touch on your exposure and experience with engineering. Uh, it’s not your primary thing. It’s not what you grew up into, but you were around it. So tell us about your relationship to engineering. 

[00:01:22] Matt O’Neill: My stepdad was an engineer and he he’s raised. my brothers and I, and he was a, planner of subdivisions. So he worked at the road commission and his engineering was, civil engineering, designing new subdivision roads and all that went into that. My older brother got into mechanical engineering.

[00:01:42] Now he was my hero, right? So he’s a mechanical engineer. He ends up becoming a mechanical engineer and he gets a job and he’s making great money and I thought, okay, this is something I should do. My little brother ends up becoming a structural engineer and his brain is just so typical engineer. He’s really brilliant.

[00:02:01] He’s really smart. He’s very, very kind of in the box. Everything needs to be the right way and, and it’s great because he designs bridges and you can’t have something that’s done the wrong way.

[00:02:15] then I got into college, I went to Western Michigan university and I entered the engineering department and I was taking engineering classes and I was really talented in mathematics and science. And I thought, okay, this is something I can do. My 1st internship after my freshman year was in the engineering department at general motors.

[00:02:34] And I was an engineer, my job was to go into this plant. And make the process more efficient on how we got parts out to parts distributors and I hated it. Absolutely Torture for me and my personality and I was all like lovey dovey with all my, co workers and like trying to light them up and have fun.

[00:02:57] And, and I would like, I signed an email and said, love Matt on one of them. And I got like brought to the principal’s office and they had a talking to me and they said, Hey, we don’t act that way around here. And I’m like, I need to go find somewhere else. Clearly I’m at the 

[00:03:14] Zach White: wrong place, clearly I’m First of all, I’m so glad that that experience actually created the intended outcome of discovering, am I living my life in the way that’s going to work for me or not?

[00:03:29] I’m kind of curious because a lot of engineers have some moments like that, maybe not as boldly as yours, but they’ve had the, is this for me? Moment, but the big salaries or the I’m good at math and science or the, whatever story they were told as to why engineering is what they should do, keeps them on that path.

[00:03:50] And I’ve had these conversations over and over again, 10 years later, 15 years later, they’re asking, do I want to stay in engineering after that career? What would you offer someone either who’s young and maybe they’re just asking the question for the first time, or if they’ve been in it for a while and they’re not sure, have I.

[00:04:08] Overlooked my calling. What would you say to that person? 

[00:04:12] Matt O’Neill: Yeah. So if you’re young, like I was, you know, I was a freshman in college. Try something new. And for me, it was a different internship. I stayed with General Motors. I just, I switched my major to marketing and went into the marketing department.

[00:04:27] Zach White: Amazing. 

[00:04:28] Matt O’Neill: and I tried that and that wasn’t for me either. And I ended up switching my major again into sales. And that was for me. Okay. So when you’re young, I think it’s a good idea to actually have real world experience with different types of jobs. want to do the thing you think you should do.

[00:04:46] And for me, I thought I should engineer. And then if you get this gut feel, this isn’t what’s right for me, then try something new that you now I thought marketing would be the thing. It wasn’t the thing. And so I said, well, that’s not it now. What is it going to be? And a lot of times there’s guidance. And for me, you know, it’s, you can call it chance encounters.

[00:05:06] I think everything’s guided. I’m in the marketing department and the director of the sales department is there at the front desk at the same time. And he said, Hey, you should take my sales class. And I’m like, No, dude, I’m not a salesman, not that is so, but that is so beneath me, you know, I’m not going to go sell cars or whatever.

[00:05:23] And he said, he said, so what are you going to do? You’re going to be in marketing. And I said, yeah, I’m going to be in marketing. He said, well, as a marketer, you know, you’re gonna have to sell your ideas. To the CEO, to the board of directors, you’re going to need my sales class. He was an excellent salesman.

[00:05:37] So I was like, all right, man. So I took his class and then I just found that lit me up. and when you get into the thing that lights you up, then you lean in. And so I leaned in at that point. Now, if you’re in your career, so now, you know, I’ve been in my career for 18 years. At this point and there’s always times you say is this right?

[00:05:57] Because there’s a bunch of crappy things that come along with any career So true and my wife and I are like should we keep running this real estate company? We’ve had that conversation Probably every other year since we started it. And if you’re an engineer and you, there’s some things and there’s times and you’re like, you know, should I keep doing this?

[00:06:15] That’s a good question to ask yourself. and then another good question to ask yourself is what do I love about this and how am I making a difference? And do I know that the next career that I might try is also going to have downsides? I think it was Darren Hardy in his book, The Entrepreneur Rollercoaster.

[00:06:35] He said, everybody that you dream, think that you think has a dream job, hate some aspect of their job. That’s right. They’re like the, you know, you think of the biggest rock and roll band ever, you know, somebody up on stage playing and the biggest crowd and you think they got the best life, you think they’re excited to play the song they’ve played a million times, you think they’re excited to be away from their family yet another night, staying up until midnight, just so that they can recreate this experience for all these fans.

[00:07:04] There’s times that they’re like, I just don’t want to be a rock star. And he’s like, think of Oprah Winfrey. You know, you think, you know, this is when Oprah had her show and she had all this influence is like there’s times when Oprah is just tired of being Oprah and she wants to go to the grocery store and not have everybody ask for an autograph.

[00:07:22] Zach White: Yep. 

[00:07:22] Matt O’Neill: So that great reminder 

[00:07:24] Zach White: for 

[00:07:24] Matt O’Neill: me that there are always going to be aspects that aren’t our favorite. if you’ve found something that lit you up at one time, now you want to say, am I stagnant? If I’m stagnant, what can I do to grow right now in this career that I knew lit me up so that I can be lit up again?

[00:07:43] Zach White: I worked with a guy named John who showed up on day one in our coaching. Absolutely lost, confused, frustrated, unhappy, and had that question rolling around. Should I just leave engineering altogether? Bail on this. I’ve checked all the boxes. I’ve got the master’s degree. I’ve got the home, the mortgage, the marriage, the baby on the way, but he was deeply unhappy.

[00:08:07] And in just 90 days of work without changing any of those external things, He had a complete turnaround in his experience and was feeling genuinely, authentically happy because of what you just described, the choice, the intention to reconnect to purpose, to focus on those things that actually did light him up and to go do what Work that created an impact right where he was.

[00:08:34] So I think that’s a super powerful reminder that even job, 

[00:08:38] Matt O’Neill: man, that’s not easy to take somebody that’s like down and out and then get them. So I’m firing and you’ve got a gift, Zach. 

[00:08:45] Zach White: Well, I appreciate that. And shout out to John, you know, John’s the one who has to show up in his own life with courage in the arena and do that work, even with guidance, it’s hard.

[00:08:54] So I love this then good mood revolution, Matt, everybody I’ve ever talked to who has the passion. And the influence in this world for good and for happiness and good moods. The way you do comes through something that ignites that passion. And I’m curious what that was for you. when did this become more than smiling in the evening after a long day selling real estate?

[00:09:23] What’s the moment where the good mood revolution was really born? 

[00:09:29] Matt O’Neill: I was born with it. It’s my life’s calling. I knew when I was five, I was going to write a book about how to be happy. And I, I knew when I was in my teens that I was going to do it in my twenties. I was going to do it. I don’t know what everyone’s spiritual belief is, but I do think there’s a purpose of why we’re here.

[00:09:48] It’s always been my purpose. When I was a child, I had a tough upbringing with my dad. He was really emotionally abusive and then he abandoned our family. 

[00:09:57] Zach White: And there were 

[00:09:58] Matt O’Neill: a lot of bad moods as a kid. I was troubled. We were anxious. There wasn’t enough money. We didn’t know how we were going to get groceries.

[00:10:06] a lot of emotional abuse and shame thinking that we weren’t enough, that I wasn’t good enough. It was really generational trauma. And I don’t need to tell the whole story, but generational trauma from my grandparents, both feeling like they weren’t enough. And then telling my dad that he wasn’t enough.

[00:10:21] And then him telling us that we sucked at everything we did and we would never amount to anything. and believing it, because as a little kid, you’re very influenced by people you look up to. And so, then as a I was like, okay, well, what I’ll do is I’ll show everybody I’m enough with my success. And I was smart and I would get good grades.

[00:10:43] And I like leaned on that to like show the world and prove the world that I was enough, but inside I still didn’t feel it no matter how much I accomplished. And, uh, I ended up turning to drugs and alcohol and, you know, and that’s, it, that’s always a noble thing. Anyone that’s struggling with drugs and alcohol, you want to feel good.

[00:11:01] I mean, this is, that’s, it’s not the right way to find it, but there’s a noble reason that we turn to that because we don’t want to feel bad anymore. And so for me, the alcohol would just, just shut down the negative thoughts. And I would just be free for a while. The drugs would shut down the negative chatter and I would be free from it.

[00:11:22] And, thankfully, like I said, I feel like everything’s guided. I had a wake up moment. And that wake up moment was literally me waking up in the middle of the night and not knowing where I was. 

[00:11:34] Zach White: And I’d 

[00:11:34] Matt O’Neill: wake up in pure panic and terror, and I was in my room, but I wouldn’t know where I was.

[00:11:40] And this happened enough times that one night I was like, maybe this is a sign I’m in the wrong place. 

[00:11:45] Zach White: Hm. This was a recurring, happened multiple nights. Wow. How old were you when this started? 

[00:11:53] Matt O’Neill: I was, I was 25. Yeah, I was 25. 

[00:11:55] Zach White: 25. 

[00:11:57] Matt O’Neill: And at that, and at that time I was living in Colorado and I was selling copy machines.

[00:12:00] I was really successful at it, but I was lost in this daily drug and alcohol use. eventually I just said, this isn’t where I’m supposed to be. This is a sign I need to do something else. So I physically moved across the country to Charleston, South Carolina. I changed careers, got into real estate.

[00:12:16] I thought, okay, I’m going to do something that’s going to help people. I’m a good salesperson. I like to sell what, what would make an impact in a positive way. Well, sure. Helping somebody fulfill their dream or, you know, taking care of their family with their home. This is something I could get behind rather than just making sure their copy machine works well.

[00:12:33] and I left the drugs and the alcohol behind 

[00:12:36] Zach White: just like that, it just moved across the country and broke that addiction. 

[00:12:42] Matt O’Neill: Yeah, I mean, there was, it’s been a process, right? So the drug, the drugs for sure. I had to move away from all the influences. Amazing. Uh, alcohol, alcohol was, uh, was more of like a transition But, as soon as I stepped foot in Charleston, a wave of knowing hit me that this is where I was going to meet my wife and where my family was going to be raised.

[00:13:06] And a couple of years later, I met my wife and, you just kind of need to follow, I think your heart and the signs. And if things don’t feel right, then, then it’s time to ask yourself what, what would feel right here. So tell me 

[00:13:20] Zach White: this. I love the conviction that I was born with it, and I can go back to five years old and tell you that there was something inside of me then that was prepared to change the world for the good mood revolution now.

[00:13:35] But you still had some dark times there, waking up in the middle of the night, not knowing where you are. What was five year old you aware of? And had you lost that at all, like lost touch with that during those two years? Difficult times or was it always present and you just kind of pushed it to the side?

[00:13:55] I’m, kind of curious like what what did five year old, you know? And did that change or transform at all through that dark period? 

[00:14:03] Matt O’Neill: So our souls are eternal. Five year old me is the same me that 25 year old me was. It’s the same me that I am now. What’s not eternal is this body and this brain, right?

[00:14:15] the ego is something that grows and learns, but the essence of who I am is always the same. You know, if you’re listening and especially as an engineer, sometimes it’s hard to get, to grasp this. But an exercise that I learned from Michael Singer in one of his books, he said, When you looked in the mirror at age 5, who was looking in the mirror?

[00:14:39] And when you looked in the mirror at age 20, who was looking in the mirror? And when you look in the mirror now, your current age, are you the same person, the same being that was looking in the mirror at all those other times? And then he asked a question and he said, So how old are you really? And when that question was asked, like a whole shiver came over my body.

[00:15:03] And it was like, it was like this kind of knowing experience that yeah, my body has changed in age, but who’s been looking out of these eyes has not. It’s always been. The same being looking out of these eyes at this changing body. And of course, our brain grows smarter over time, but that’s the hardware that we incarnated into, right?

[00:15:26] So we have this, we’ve got this survival hardware. So we, where did bad moods come from? What keeps us from happiness? What happens is, is that we, that we have these survival thoughts 

[00:15:36] Zach White: and 

[00:15:37] Matt O’Neill: our brains just trying to help us survive. So for me, 

[00:15:41] Zach White: you 

[00:15:41] Matt O’Neill: know, another thing I believe is that, I’m not a victim and none of us are, I chose to incarnate into this situation with this dad.

[00:15:50] I didn’t know that at the time, but as I grew older, that’s just a belief that I’ve developed. And if I chose it, I chose it for a reason. why would you choose a dad that is going to abuse you and abandon you? It’s because there, there’s so much pain is going to be created. I’m going to have to figure it out.

[00:16:06] And if I figure it out, then I can use that figuring out to then help other people overcome whatever pain they’re into. I wouldn’t be teaching the good mood revolution if I had the dad that was throwing the ball with me. 

[00:16:16] Zach White: That’s right. 

[00:16:17] Matt O’Neill: I would, it would have just had such an easy, comfortable life.

[00:16:19] I wouldn’t have learned anything to help anybody with what I really was here to help people with. your pain can always become your purpose. the only thing that can really harm us. Is our own negative story. So I was 25. I had this negative story that I was worthless. And that no matter how much I did to achieve and prove deep down, I didn’t feel like I was worth anything.

[00:16:45] This is the most destructive of the eight bad moods. It’s the emotion of shame. And it is always a lie. It’s always a lie. The lie of shame says I’m not enough as I am. We all, every single person alive has some degree of this story that I’m not enough to heal. Yeah. We all do. And so we need to work on healing the lie that I’m not enough as I am.

[00:17:09] And it just happens. You’re a kid, you’re on the ball field, you’re the last one picked, let’s say. And then somebody says something mean to you and you’re like, Oh man, I guess I’m just not as good as everybody. Or you’re, uh, you know, you’re in your teens and you have a relationship and then she cheats on you or whatever.

[00:17:26] And then you say, man, I guess I’m not somebody that deserves to be treated right. And so then you develop a story that I’m not enough. We all have some type of story that shows up that says I’m not enough. For me, it was just my dad, but all of us deal with it. the first thing I had to heal was that lie that I’m not enough.

[00:17:43] Zach White: Such a key reminder too that that story’s creation was well intentioned by that survival mechanism of our subconscious mind, our nervous system. So Matt, before we end. Pull the thread further. Cause I definitely I’m hungry to know what do we do about this? What’s the engineer? It’s like, let’s go to the solution, but I’ve got it back up in the spirit of engineering, like what’s the problem and get clear on some definitions and understand that a bit more deeply.

[00:18:15] So would you entertain me for a moment? The good mood revolution, the idea of a mood and maybe linking it to what is happiness then, and is it a mood? Is it some, can you just maybe lay out the landscape? How do you understand what’s actually happening here? Define a couple of the terms, starting with this idea of, of moods and how does happiness fit into that?

[00:18:40] Matt O’Neill: Yeah, moods can be synonymous with emotions and there are eight primary negative emotions and different veins of the same eight can manifest like, you know, hatred can manifest from anger, but the root of it is anger. Frustration is another form of anger. Annoyance is another form of anger, but it all has a root of angers, which is one of the eight primary emotions or moods.

[00:19:06] Okay. I just call them moods because emotions for me is a little bit, fuzzier and I’m like, Hey, there’s really just eight primary moods and it’s easy to, to dismantle a primary negative primary negative. And it’s easy to dismantle these negative moods. There’s one primary positive mood. And it’s love.

[00:19:27] And it’s actually the essence of our being, and it’s the essence of who we are. And the only thing that happens when we’re not being happy is we’re blocking the flow of love that’s coming from us. And we’re blocking it with one of the eight primary stories. and as soon as we can clear out these eight primary stories and see the truth, we’ll see that everything that has always happened is always being guided by a grand scheme of love.

[00:19:53] That’s like the epiphany. And when we see it, we can’t unsee it. And then all of a sudden, when you get trapped in anger again, and I still do because I’m alive and I still have that survival mechanism and you can’t get rid of it until you die. You have it. We’re it’s part of us. There’s these two parts of our being.

[00:20:10] We got our eternal soul that is attached to the survival body. And as long as we’re still alive, those survival instincts are so powerful. There’s, we’re still going to catch us. but we can unhook. The Velcro of that story pretty quick once we understand it and then get back to this knowing that, Hey, my essence is love.

[00:20:28] The world is love. And as I feel that really, really happy. 

[00:20:32] Zach White: Okay. Let’s see if I caught it. The epiphany there’s eight primary negative moods and these moods, we could call them emotions, feelings, and experience. We could put lots of different shades to each one, but they come out of the same root. And.

[00:20:50] There’s a story that we link in our survival mechanism to each of these eight moods, and when we live in that story or we believe it, it blocks the singular positive mood and story which is rooted in love. And if we’re blocking the flow of love from any of these eight or multiple, if we layer it on, then I’m gonna put my head on the pillow at night and say, I’m unhappy.

[00:21:15] I’m depressed. I’m frustrated. My life sucks. I’m a victim. I’m whatever the story’s telling me. Yeah, you nailed it. Okay, so let’s, let’s lay out the eight negative moods really quick. Sure. What are they? 

[00:21:31] Matt O’Neill: Yeah, from, from most destructive. To most helpful and they all have some helpful aspect again It’s the survival brain is always trying to help us survive.

[00:21:40] It just doesn’t care if you’re happy At all it and in fact that is not a goal of the survival brain at all But what’s crazy is it’s such a master manipulator It tells you if you listen to these lies, you will be happy and you believe it and it’s like, Hey, if you just listen to this lie, it’s going to help you be happy, but it never, ever, ever works.

[00:22:02] You cannot be lost in one of these eight stories and be happy at the same time. So the first story is the story of Shane, that something’s wrong with me, that I’m not enough. Why would the brain want to tell you that? Well, for survival. So my dad said, Hey, you’re not enough. The first time he said that I cried my eyes out.

[00:22:21] Well, I cannot be crying my eyes out in the jungle for days on end or a tiger’s just gonna come and eat me. 

[00:22:28] Zach White: You’re dead. 

[00:22:29] Matt O’Neill: So I have to be prepared the next time he says you’re not enough. I have to be prepared so that I don’t just suffer all the time. So I tell myself I’m not enough over and over and over so when he says that I already know it and I’m like, Oh, I already knew that.

[00:22:42] Zach White: Yeah, I believe 

[00:22:43] Matt O’Neill: that. And I move on and keep surviving. No problem. Right. So that’s why it shows up and you can unravel all these stories. They’re always going to come back to the same thing. They were created by the ego to help you survive. The second most destructive one is this feeling of guilt. this guilt says I’ve done something wrong and I deserve to be punished for it.

[00:23:02] And, we become the person who punishes ourself with guilt when our parents stop. So as an adult, when we make mistakes, we’ll beat ourselves up a lot for those mistakes. It doesn’t help us. but then the flip side of that is, if you find yourself ever judging someone else, that’s your own guilt projected onto other people.

[00:23:21] Saying, well, they deserve punishment. They deserve my judgment. And so this, we can’t be happy while we’re judging ourselves or others. The next, of the eight is hopelessness. might be what John was experiencing. And this one says, That, hey, all of this stuff is mounted up, joy is now a hopeless thing for me, and I’m just stuck.

[00:23:43] I can’t quit the job 

[00:23:46] Zach White: because 

[00:23:46] Matt O’Neill: I need to provide for my family, but I can’t have happiness while I do it, it’s just hopeless. The only way out of hopelessness is to reach out to Zach. You actually need, you cannot, when you believe the lie that life is hopeless or that joy is hopeless. You cannot get out of it yourself.

[00:24:03] That is the one emotion that needs a higher theme of consciousness. That needs somebody from a higher vibration to pull you out and say, Hey, you’re not in this alone. And just being around someone who’s vibrating love, is enough to pull someone out of hopelessness. It’s not what you said. It was your energy field that he actually said to relate.

[00:24:25] It’s really 

[00:24:25] Zach White: good. I’ll, I’ll pause you there for one second, Matt, because I love this reality. And I appreciate the comment, whether it’s Zach White or anyone go get connected to somebody who can help. Vibrate at that level and pull you to that place. I share with every engineering leader that I work with the non negotiable priority of community in our work together, not just me and that person I’m working with, but with other engineering leaders who are on that journey with us for this exact reason.

[00:24:54] And I remind them if we don’t have an. Exposure to ideas and a picture, a vision of what life can be, and, someone who’s further on that path than you around you all the time. It’s very easy to get trapped in that. Box that we talked about earlier and just believe that this is all there is. That’s right.

[00:25:16] So I, I think it’s essential, absolutely essential that people totally, whatever, 

[00:25:21] Matt O’Neill: totally agree. And, community is such a important thing in having friendships. And so in, You know, my book, Good Mood Revolution, I outline personal stories of dealing with each of these emotions and then the steps to get out of them.

[00:25:37] And the, the exercise in hopelessness is to, before you get into it, list your five lifelines. Who are the five people right now in your life that are a positive influence? So that when you get lost in that moment, all you have to do is reach out to one of them. So good. But this is the problem with hopelessness is and this is what happened to me with drugs and alcohol.

[00:26:00] you’re like, well, shoot, it’s hopeless anyway, so I’ll just be self destructive the worst thing that can ever happen is to just suffer alone and, then thoughts that, hey, maybe I shouldn’t even be here anymore can show up. But life is never, ever, ever beyond hope ever.

[00:26:16] And all we just need is just somebody to remind us of that. And as soon as we get out of that cloud, that lie of hopelessness, things start to brighten up and the, in our best life is showing up just beyond it. 

[00:26:28] Zach White: Okay. Shame, guilt, hopelessness. What’s number four. 

[00:26:33] Matt O’Neill: It’s such a beautiful one. It’s, it’s sadness.

[00:26:38] It’s inevitable. We can’t get away from it. Sadness happens anytime something changes that we didn’t want to change. what’s so beautiful about sadness, we can get lost in it, obviously. The whole world can become something that we’re sad about. Uh, like, I’ve got an uncle who’s almost 70. He’s been sad about his age for the last 20 years.

[00:27:01] He’s been sad that he, that he can’t do the things he used to do for all that time. And, uh, and what happened is, is he started to live in his own little shell and he didn’t leave his apartment and he still doesn’t leave his apartment. And I, I used to go and like pull him out of his apartment and go shoot pool with him.

[00:27:18] And eventually it just became too much of a burden on me to continue to try to pull him out of his sadness. Wow. Wow. so we can get lost there and just be sad that things aren’t the way that they were, right? So he lost his wife a long time ago and that life with his wife was a beautiful life.

[00:27:37] And when he lost her, you know, this was my aunt Gina, he just always was just clinging to the way it used to be. Well, that’s totally appropriate and normal for a time. And what we have to then eventually say. Alright, my life is now. And now I need to make a new future, a new vision, because that our life is still full of hope and brightness and beauty and excitement.

[00:28:05] If we choose to make it that way, we have to set a new vision with what is now our reality. So, as his body became older and he became less able to do the things he used to do. He became more able to do other things. He had more time. He retired, right? So he could have spent more time with grandchildren if that had been his goal, right?

[00:28:23] He could have connected more with friends and, to give my uncle credit, he did. He started playing cards with some guys and, uh, he started to build some friendships. But he still would, every time I’d see him just kind of complain that things weren’t the way that they used to be.

[00:28:36] So this 

[00:28:36] Zach White: idea of living in the past, clinging to how it was and feeling the sadness or the grief and the, the energy around it, not being that way. This is something in coaching where I remind people, I’m excited for you to bring the lessons of your past into our conversation in the present for us to learn from and act from.

[00:28:58] But if what you want to do is. Talk about your past and live in your past with me, then you’re not ready for coaching. feel free to go lean into psychotherapy or other tools to help you there. That’s not what I’m here to support you with. You know, this is about bringing your energy into the present moment in service of a powerful vision of the future.

[00:29:16] And I think it’s an important distinction for people if they’re really trapped in that place to go get the kind of help that you need to get out of that and to start pulling, you Yourself back to the present the point of power in your life is in the present not in the past, right? 

[00:29:30] Matt O’Neill: Totally man Absolutely in every single moment every every single present moment is a point of power At any moment we can set a new vision for what art is possible in our life and we’re unlimited Absolutely unlimited.

[00:29:46] So anything we want to create we can create as long as we own this moment And we stop worrying about what happened in previous moments So the next is fear and this shows up as anxiety or worry, or just fear, but usually people in today’s world are saying, I met somebody last night, who self prescribed herself as having an anxiety disorder.

[00:30:09] And I was like, ah, her, she, we, we were going, that was just 

[00:30:14] Zach White: part of the introduction. Hi, I’m Zach and I suffer from an anxiety disorder. We were going to 

[00:30:20] Matt O’Neill: dinner with some friends and, uh, and they just, they just ran straight through a stop sign and I tried to swerve and they hit us going 40 miles an hour and the whole front of their car comes off.

[00:30:32] This is last night. And, you know, my car’s, you can’t, is undriveable, and we all got this, and thankfully everybody’s healthy. And, uh, and she’s, she’s sitting on the sidewalk just shaking. And then, and I’m like, hey, it’s okay. Everybody’s okay. You’re okay. You know, cars can be fixed. They could be replaced.

[00:30:52] This is not a big deal. And she says, Oh no, I just, I have this anxiety disorder. And I, you know, I, I, it wasn’t a time for me to coach someone, but as she said those words and she labeled herself as someone with a disorder, right. I’m like, no one, okay. I can’t speak to this. I, all I can speak to is my own experience.

[00:31:13] I used to think. I’m an angry person with a short fuse. My dad was an angry person with a short fuse. I inherited it. I’m an angry person with a short fuse. I used to tell people, I’m an angry person with a short fuse. And as I labeled myself that, guess what? I blew up at people and had a short fuse. Yeah, you lived 

[00:31:28] Zach White: it.

[00:31:28] Yeah. 

[00:31:29] Matt O’Neill: As soon as I, I dropped the label and realized anger is just one of these eight emotions and we can get past of it. I’m no longer ever an angry person with a short fuse. Yeah, I experienced anger, but I don’t have a short fuse because I’ve learned the skills to not be trapped in it. And so if you have anxiety attacks or you suffer from anxiety, my heart is with you and it is just an emotion of fear.

[00:31:53] And all fear is, is this idea that we’re going to have a negative experience in the future. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:31:58] Zach White: Yeah. 

[00:31:59] Matt O’Neill: it’s a story, the story of fear says, the world is scary and things are going to get me again, coming from a place of protection. The ego is like, Hey, you could die at any moment, her T boning me in my car.

[00:32:13] She could have died. We could have died. That’s a scary situation. So of course, somebody who thinks they have an anxiety disorder is going to sit there and hyperventilate on the sidewalk because they just encountered an experience that could have killed her. Sure. Yeah. She didn’t die. so the story is, is that I’m going, something bad is going to happen in my future.

[00:32:33] Well, guess what happens if we believe that? We manifest it. 

[00:32:37] Zach White: Mm hmm. Well, and Matt, two different, two different outcomes in terms of an individualized experience from the same situation. You know, she’s most likely, Taking that accident as evidence that her fear is valid and real and reinforcing that she needs to be more careful in life and more anxious.

[00:32:57] She has more to be afraid of, and then more anxiety will come. You have the same accident. You’re part of the same situation and you’re collecting evidence that I’m protected and I’m safe and my family is safe and nothing can hurt me. And like this world is in service of my good. And it’s like, Just the tremendous difference that one moment in time and the trajectory difference that you’re on versus what she’s most likely on.

[00:33:23] Obviously don’t know her. I don’t want to prophetically speak over her life in a negative way, but it’s a very probable outcome and compounding over time, the impact that that, that makes is just extraordinary. 

[00:33:35] Matt O’Neill: And, and of course, you know, I think everything’s guided. So this morning in my journal. I journaled and I, I asked God or the universe or whatever higher power is out there.

[00:33:47] I said, you know, I’m like, okay, so this was an experience that I was meant to have. What was the reason? And I just wrote, I wrote the question in my journal and when I’m looking for answers to things I don’t know, I do, I, in my journal, I just write a question and then I wait until some answer appears. You could say it’s my subconscious, the superconscious, my higher self, my soul.

[00:34:10] I don’t know what, who’s answering and what’s answering, but all I know is that answers always show up and they’re always right. so I was answered that, I was meant to have that experience to see that I’m not in control. and I said, okay. I’m like, well, I’ve got God’s attention. I’m gonna ask him another question.

[00:34:31] Let’s go further. I said, so, okay, great. So I was meant to have this experience to see that I’m not in control of everything. Uh, what does that mean for what I should be doing going forward? What, what am I to do with this information that I’m not in control of everything? and the answer I got was to teach people about surrender and to surrender more yourself.

[00:34:52] what does this mean? Surrender? Well, ultimately we’re not in control. There was zero preventing that. The only way we didn’t get hit in that situation is if I left a little bit earlier, a little bit later, but that was an impossibility because I left when I left. So getting T boned by that car was an inevitable experience that was beyond me.

[00:35:15] it was divinely guided. It was just happening now. An engineer mind may say cause and effect. It just happened to be a random set of occurrences. Life is way more magical than that. When we get beyond all of that, we start to see that everything is happening for some type of a reason. so what’s surrender?

[00:35:32] This is the key to happiness. Actually, we’re going back to love. Surrender says I am ultimately not in control. I’m going to control everything I can today. I’m going to do the best I can today. And then the things that happen. That I don’t like I’m going to surrender to God knowing that God is good and that he’s out for my best intentions and that he’s out for everyone’s best intentions and whatever happens in my life is the will of God and that’s a good thing and I’m just going to accept it as what’s supposed to happen.

[00:36:03] So today we’re without a car my wife’s car is in the shop we’ve got four kids we’ve got cheerleading practice and and you know what there was just no reason to stress about any of that because I’m like this is God’s will it’s God’s will that our cars are in the shop. and then this is, this is a happy thing.

[00:36:19] So ultimately it goes back to love, what I was saying at the beginning. Wow. God loves me. He loves you. He loves that girl so infinitely much. He lets us believe untrue stories of anxiety until we suffer enough pain that we say, maybe this story isn’t helping me. 

[00:36:38] Zach White: I’m encouraged. Not that you got in an accident, but as far as additional benefits, if it hadn’t happened, then we wouldn’t be able to have this.

[00:36:49] Really powerful moment in our conversation. And I’m, I’m blessed by it. I’m blessed by it. I don’t want to leave without the other three, but I also could go deeper here. I think we need to, we need to finish the engineer in me wants to get all eight on the table. So let’s do six, seven, and eight, and then we’ll, we’ll land the plane at that point.

[00:37:09] But Matt, what else in these eight negative moods? What’s number six? 

[00:37:15] Matt O’Neill: Number six is a, is a pivotal moment of happiness. It’s the emotion of desire. Desire. So we go from the most destructive to the least destructive. And as this, as we elevate, you know, shame being the most destructive, fear is actually pretty constructive because it says, Hey, things could hurt me.

[00:37:39] We get out of anxiety and fear, by the way, by saying, well, okay, you’re obviously trying to alert me that things can hurt me. What action can I take to protect myself today? And as soon as we take action, the fear subsides. That’s the answer to anxiety. But then is after fear, we desire a better life.

[00:37:57] Desire can be used for so much good. We could desire to have a more loving life. We could desire to have a more intimate relationship with our wife. We could desire to have better relationships with our children. This is when desire is a positive. Desire is a negative when all we do is desire external things and more success and more power and more fame.

[00:38:19] And this desire is an insatiable trap that ultimately leaves us feeling empty and unfulfilled. And that was me. As I was getting the good grades and then having the great career and then building a big company, I was just in this desire trap of more and more and more and more. And if I could just fill up with enough accomplishment, then I’ll be happy.

[00:38:40] And what happened is I just filled up with all this accomplishment and so much emptiness inside that I’m like, well, screw it. I’m just going to drink and do a bunch of drugs all the time because. Life is meaningless and that’s the trap of desire is it it’s it’s an insatiable pit when we point it at external success So I’m just gonna move to the next two because in the interest of time Perfect the final of the final two when we go to anger and anger is the one that I was the most troubled with earlier in my life.

[00:39:11] Anger is really good too. It’s so good. Like all, all radical positive change comes from the emotion of anger where we say, I’m not happy with the way things are. Yeah. 

[00:39:23] Zach White: Enough. 

[00:39:24] Matt O’Neill: Yeah. Enough of this. And so for me, Enough of these bad moods. I am sick of not feeling fulfilled inside. I need to do something else.

[00:39:36] And so, what do I do? I start to study from all the greatest minds ever. And flying all over the world to To meet Eckhart Tolle and Marianne Williamson and, Dr. Benjamin, Tony Robbins and sitting down with, these gurus and saying, what is the key to all of this and then learning what the key of it is and then putting it into action.

[00:39:56] And so that’s how anger can be positive. Anger is super negative. As we know, typically you think of a bad mood. You think of somebody throwing a temper tantrum, screaming in someone’s face, breaking things. Right. Anger can be really, really destructive when we face it towards others. And so if you’re ever finding yourself angry with someone else, you’re believing three things.

[00:40:18] The first is they did something wrong. The second is I’m harmed or someone’s harmed. And the third thing we’re believing when we’re angry is it’s their fault. Anger can be dismantled when we question those three beliefs. So if someone harms you in your life, And you’re really angry about it. So for me, I was angry with my dad.

[00:40:41] Hey, my dad did something wrong. He abandoned his duties of being a dad. Well, I’ll just question it. Did he do anything wrong? Man, actually he was doing the best he could. He didn’t have the tools I have. There were times he took me out to feed apples to the horses. There were times he took me fishing. He did the very best he could.

[00:41:08] Did he do anything wrong? No, you can’t do better than your best. So this is how we can unravel anger. My story was he could have done better, but the reality is he couldn’t have done better. It was the best he could do. 

[00:41:23] Zach White: And so 

[00:41:24] Matt O’Neill: anger gets unraveled. Anytime we question this assumption that somebody has done something wrong, that somebody was harmed.

[00:41:29] And so the next one, was I really harmed with the way he was? sure, you know, bruises and, eating whole bars of soap and that stuff was uncomfortable to go through, but I became stronger. I became better. I became a way more complete person. So was I harmed or was I helped? the anger goes away once we start to question these three things.

[00:41:50] The last one was, it’s all his fault. But was it his fault? His parents abused him. Was it his fault that he was raised in that environment? Was it his fault that he wasn’t introduced to the things I’ve been introduced to, to grow past it? or was he just a victim of that kind of circumstance? So that’s how we heal anger.

[00:42:07] The last of the eight lies is this lie of, of pride. Pride is so interesting. It’s so good. It’s so good to say, wow, I’m so proud of all I’ve done and all I’ve accomplished. And yet at the same time. Pride is the pinnacle of the ego and it keeps us from happiness. If we see somebody acting pridefully, the lie is I’m better than you.

[00:42:34] It’s not, it’s never a truth. We’re never better than anyone. We’re all. equally infused with the essence of God and with this infinite love and with this infinite protection, all of us is equally able to elevate ourselves. So we’re never better than anyone. Any gifts that I have were gifted to me, right?

[00:42:51] God gifted me with what I have. 

[00:42:53] Zach White: That’s right. And 

[00:42:53] Matt O’Neill: so when we’re believing this story of pride that I’m better than others and I deserve more than others, entitlement shows up and we can’t be happy and entitled at the same time. 

[00:43:03] Zach White: Amen to that. It’s no surprise. that the Bible says, beware he who thinks he stands, lest he fall.

[00:43:12] Pride comes before the fall. Matt, this is a powerful list. And really interesting how these last three in particular, the desire point, you know, Napoleon Hill famous for saying, desire is the starting point of all achievement. And we associate it with only the good, but played out differently. To its extreme and how our subconscious and that survival instinct will take it and twist it and create a lot of frustration and challenge in your life.

[00:43:44] Going 

[00:43:44] Matt O’Neill: back to the Bible, I was just talking with my friends about this this morning. Lord’s Prayer doesn’t say, give me 10 million breads. It says, give me today’s bread. Give me this, give me this, grant me today’s daily bread, what I need today. Right. And so as we desire hoarding, which the ego says, if I hoard all the resources, I’ll live longer.

[00:44:07] Zach White: Yeah. 

[00:44:08] Matt O’Neill: but that’s not a truth. It’s just, what it does is it just creates a lot of unhappiness. 

[00:44:14] Zach White: Okay. One more quick thing, and then we’ll wrap this amazing conversation. The engineer in me immediately wants to go. Intellectualize this, understand it more, think about it harder, learn more, and get into that logical, analytical brain.

[00:44:34] I’m just saying that partly from my own accountability, Matt, to say it, but also I think a lot of people who I, speak to and work with. Have that same pattern in terms of how we approach life where I Q driven leaders as engineers and it serves us at work and it can also lead into some real challenges.

[00:44:52] What would you offer? Just as a thought as we hear all this for the first time, how do we unplug a bit? Or what’s the key in terms of, you know, Where to leverage logic versus how much of this do we really need to understand versus just take these actions or what would you say to the engineer in me that wants to intellectualize this whole concept?

[00:45:15] Matt O’Neill: It’s good to intellectualize it. It’s absolutely good to intellectualize it. we need to understand things from all levels. The intellect is one of those levels, and this is why we, you know, talking to engineers, we’re talking about the survival mechanism of the brain. We can, we can understand that.

[00:45:32] We can understand that the brain is just here to help us survive, uh, and yet the brain is not where happiness resides. Happiness resides in the present. The brain can’t live in the present. We, and so this is where the intellect can go. The brain lives in the past thinking about what’s happened or in the future thinking about what can happen.

[00:45:51] Thank you. You’re welcome. But happiness exists in the now. So to get happy, anytime we’re unhappy, we’re in the past or in the future in our brain, and we need to get out of the brain. So for me, I started every morning by putting, I do this now. I put my hand on my heart. I feel my heartbeat. I just notice I’m breathing in and out.

[00:46:12] This is meditation. A simple practice of meditation gets us to shut that brain down and get into the present and that’s where happiness resides. So understand it logically, but then if you actually want to be happy, you have to let your brain go away for a little while and just be in the moment.

[00:46:30] Zach White: Happiness resides Now, not in the past, not in your vision of the future. Matt, this has been so, so good. If someone wants to explore the good mood revolution, grab your book, listen to your podcast, find out more about you and your work. Where’s the best place. How can somebody connect to what you’re doing?

[00:46:50] Matt O’Neill: the best thing is to order the book on Amazon or plug into the podcast on Spotify or Apple, you know, Good Mood Revolution. And that’s, that’s really the way I get introduced to most people. And then, relationships can form from there. 

[00:47:03] Zach White: Amazing. All those links to the book, to the podcast and Matt’s socials will be Uh, in the show notes, happy engineer, please go check it out, Matt.

[00:47:13] Thank you for your generosity today. I want to land with this final thought. You’re going to appreciate as a coach and somebody who’s done the work that you do. And as a podcast host yourself, questions lead, the answers follow, and we want better answers in our life, more happiness, more good moods, more fill in the blank, our definition of success.

[00:47:38] So we want to ask better questions. That said, what would be the question you would lead the happy engineer with coming out of our conversation today?

[00:47:50] Matt O’Neill: That was brilliant, Zach.

[00:47:52] This is, this is one of my favorite questions. Anytime we’re not enjoying a situation, I like to ask myself, do I have to do this? If the answer is yes, then I say, I don’t have to suffer and do it. So how could I do this task and enjoy the process? So if you’re an engineer, if you’re anyone and you’re doing something that you need to do, but you don’t want to do, there’s a lie that you have to suffer through it.

[00:48:25] It’s not true. You can always ask, how can I do this thing and enjoy the process? When you ask that question, guess what? You’re, you come up with all these creative answers and you find ways to do it in a new way. That’s actually fun. 

[00:48:39] Zach White: Hmm. I love that. How can I choose to do this without suffering? 

[00:48:47] Matt O’Neill: Yeah. Or enjoyment.

[00:48:48] Just, how can I choose to do it with 

[00:48:49] Zach White: enjoyment? Do it with enjoyment. 

[00:48:51] Matt O’Neill: You’ll find lots. It’s so fun. It’s so fun. you know, again, suffering is kind of a lie of the ego. Just, Hey, suffer through this little task and then I’ll let you be happy. But again, happiness exists in the now. So. If I want to be happy in the now and get this done, how do I do it now while I enjoy it?

[00:49:06] Because it’s the only time I can be happy. I use that question all the time because of course there’s things as a dad, I got to change poopy diapers, you know, how do I change his poopy diaper and enjoy changing it? How do I, I’m exhausted. How do I do bedtime routine and enjoy doing bedtime routine?

[00:49:24] You know, 

[00:49:26] Zach White: So amazing, Matt. I just want to acknowledge you, the impact you’re making in the world, your heart, your willingness to be present here, to give extra time and your generosity here on this podcast for the happy engineer and wishing you tons of happiness, joy, success, love flowing in your life going forward.

[00:49:45] Thanks again for being here. 

[00:49:47] Matt O’Neill: Oh, thank you, Zach. Such an honor.