192: The Secrets of Boosting Sustainable Productivity with Mark Struczewski | Mister Productivity

[00:00:12] Zach White: Wait a second. Am I in the wrong place? Mark, so happy to have you on a host of your own incredible podcast.

[00:00:20] I want to say that right out of the gate, go check out the Mr. Productivity podcast with Mark. We’ll put links in the show notes for that. What? How many episodes now? Thousands? Hundreds of thousands? I don’t know when this episode’s 

[00:00:30] Mark Struczewski: coming out, but on September 2nd of 2024, I hit an unbelievable 1300 episodes, and I have no plans of slowing down.

[00:00:39] Zach White: Amazing. So if you needed evidence that Mark knows how to be productive, there it is. Mark, I actually want to start in an interesting place. When I was going through all your content, one of the things you just have been talking about recently, and I know you’ve talked about it many times before, is around the idea of a digital detox.

[00:00:57] it just so happens I’m returning from a two week detox. Trip to Fiji where I took my first ever full two weeks of digital detox. I’ve never gone that long. No email, no calendar. My team took care of everything. I didn’t record any podcasts. It was just pure digital detox. was amazing. Life changing, but you had some really powerful things to say about the importance of this and how it fits into productivity.

[00:01:24] So tell me about your perspective. What is digital detoxing? Where does it fit? Why do we need it? I want to dig a bit deeper with you. 

[00:01:33] Mark Struczewski: Would this be a bad time to take my digital detox? No, 

[00:01:36] Zach White: I probably should wait for the after 

[00:01:37] Mark Struczewski: the show. You know, it sounds like maybe two weeks starting right now. No, here’s the deal, the put, put myself in the context for your listeners.

[00:01:48] I am 59 years young and I say 59 years young because I feel like I’m in my low forties. I grew up in the seventies and eighties and we didn’t have Cell phones. We didn’t have streaming. Wait, we didn’t have VCRs. Wait, no VCRs. Yeah. We have no cable. And so I would wait, wait, wait. 

[00:02:08] Zach White: What’s a VCR. That’s a joke.

[00:02:12] Good question. Chuck. That’s a joke. 

[00:02:14] Mark Struczewski: No, no, I’m old enough. No, listen, there are people who don’t even know what a DVR is, so I get it, but back then I would come home from school, and I mean school, I mean high school and college, and I actually drove in my car without a phone because I didn’t have a phone.

[00:02:31] And I got to where I wanted to go. in today’s world, which is on 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year, 366 in leap years, we are always checking our phones. And the importance of having a digital detox is I can’t over, I can’t overstate the importance of it because how many people listening to the show right now?

[00:02:58] Cannot watch a television program whether that’s a movie a show A sporting event and not have your phone in your hand. When’s the last time you went to the bathroom? without your phone okay, so I have taken to reading print books I have taken to reading books on my Kindle. Now I tactically could have internet access on the Kindle, but I like reading on the Kindle or getting print magazines.

[00:03:28] So I can read a magazine on my phone. I choose to get the print copy so I can go outside and read it and leave my phone in the house. It is so important because our brains are. Getting all these dopamine hits and i’ve never taken cocaine But i’ve heard that when you take it the reason why the first hit’s free You get hooked and the more you use it You got to take more and more and more and more same with alcohol and what have you?

[00:03:52] Well, the brain works the same way. So that’s why we have to oh, let me go check on tiktok for a few minutes five hours Then let me go check on instagram reels Then let me go check on x and our brains don’t You ever have a chance to go because it’s always processing this information. We don’t understand that our brains are constantly processing things.

[00:04:15] So not only do I think you should take a digital detox. Now, if that sounds scary to you, start small, maybe an hour, then four hours, then a whole day, work your way up. But here’s something else I want to challenge your audience to do. Go outside without your technology and close your eyes. Because when your eyes are open, your brain is processing.

[00:04:34] Oh, there’s a squirrel. There’s a, there’s a cardinal. Now, the wind’s blowing through the trees. Oh, look at my grass need to be grown. And you keep, keep going and going and going. Your brain’s processing. So go outside. If you’re like, I like to go out my bare feet. Take my shirt off get the sun if it’s sunny out and I just like to close my eyes and just Let my brain and my eyes take some time To yeah, that’s good.

[00:05:00] Take a break. But also what people do is okay I go outside and I close my eyes, but i’m listening something. no. No just be present Listen to the wind listen to the  dog’s barking and just be present and I encourage people In this 24 7, 365 world, gift yourself. Maybe an hour, then work up to two, then work up to four.

[00:05:26] Now, no technology. I promise you, you will survive. 

[00:05:30] Zach White: You, you will survive and you will benefit. And Mark, I agree with what you’re describing. I do challenges around this with my clients. And you’ve coached a lot of people yourself. If you were going to describe, what is the benefit on the other side of a digital detox?

[00:05:47] Why is it so important for productivity? Why does it, Need to be a part of our rhythm and something we do more often. What are the big results that the benefits of this, that you’ve seen 

[00:05:59] Mark Struczewski: your brain gets exhausted from all the processing. So think about it. You wake up the moment you wake up, your brain starts processing and you go throughout the day and it continues the process.

[00:06:11] You keep working on projects. You keep looking at things, you keep hearing things and your brain doesn’t get a break. So when you give your brain a break. It’s going to improve your productivity because it’s kind of like you’re stepping back and going, okay, let’s take a break here. let’s just be present in this moment.

[00:06:28] Now you may call it mindfulness. You may call being silent, whatever, but it’s going to increase your energy. I encourage anyone who’s doubting, do this, take a 30 minute break or when you go on lunch break 30 minutes, don’t watch YouTube. Don’t scroll on Tik TOK. Don’t talk to anybody, just be silent for 30 minutes.

[00:06:50] And tell me at the end of that, that you don’t get more energy when you go back to work. I’ve never heard anybody not doing that. 

[00:06:58] Zach White: Great way to approach it for an engineer because you know, I love tests. I want to design an experiment and run the test. So here’s a simple test, 30 minutes. And decide for yourself at the end, how do you feel and how does it impact the work you do right after?

[00:07:14] I love that. Well, I’ll tell you, two weeks was a challenge. I felt those withdrawal symptoms. It was like an addict, you know, my, my cocaine drip. Well, I don’t even, how do you even do cocaine? You and I here, whatever it is, the morphine drip, um, you know, pulling that out was hard those first couple of days, but by day three, day started to really smooth out by day five, six.

[00:07:36] It’s like you’re alive at a whole new level and you’re coming into those quiet times with the journal. So many ideas, so much creativity, so much energy by having that space. And I know it’s not practical for everyone to take two weeks and go to Fiji, but 30 minutes, anybody can run that test. So 

[00:07:55] Mark Struczewski: something else I do, I’m a daily runner and I’ve been running at least one mile every day for over three or over seven years now.

[00:08:02] there’s this phrase in the running world called running naked. Does not mean you go out buck naked. It means you don’t wear headphones. You’re not listening to podcasts, audiobooks, music. And I try to do this one or two times a week. I got to get better at it. But what I find when I’m going out for a run, And i’m not listening to anything other than what’s happening around me I get all these ideas which is kind of annoying because I got to keep pulling my phone up while i’m running and making all These voice notes because I won’t remember when I get home, but I encourage people Just because you’re going to the airport or on a plane There’s no law that says you have to listen to something.

[00:08:38] It’s okay to leave your headphones packed away. 

[00:08:42] Zach White: Mark, I like to drive naked, too. Go for a drive. I 

[00:08:46] Mark Struczewski: hope you mean without headphones. Oh, sorry, without headphones. 

[00:08:49] Zach White: Drive without headphones, yeah, exactly. Um, no, that’s a great tip. That’s a great tip. leave the inputs. To the side, Just give yourself some space to hear from your inner voice rather than filling your mind with all of those things.

[00:09:00] Yeah, I’m not saying every 

[00:09:01] Mark Struczewski: day, but I’m like, if you’re a daily runner like I do, or maybe you’re a daily biker or whatever, just once a week to say, you know what, on Saturdays, I’m going to go for a five mile run and I’m not wearing headphones. That’s good. And you’ll see, you’ll feel different. When you finish that with that run because you’re like, oh, I can’t finish this podcast or the music wasn’t hit, right?

[00:09:22] But if you’re not listening to that now, you’re really Where your feet hit the ground, you’re sensing it more, you’re hearing the birds chirp. You can actually, when you’re wearing headphones, you say hi to people and they say hi back to you, you can’t hear it. So it’s a, it’s a totally different experience.

[00:09:37] And I need to get back into, I’m being completely vulnerable on your show. I need to get back and I need to up my game and doing at least two times a month, non negotiable or a week, I 

[00:09:47] Zach White: should say. Okay, twice a week, non negotiable. Mark, I’m gonna send you a note sometime and hold you accountable to that.

[00:09:53] That sounds like a good plan. You do that. But put that coach lens on. I know with my engineering managers I coach, a lot of times they’ll say, Hey, Zach, You’re giving us all these tips. We’re not going to need you anymore. And now we’re telling all these listeners, just stop listening to things.

[00:10:06] They’re not going to need us anymore doing podcasts, but yeah, they will. Cause you 

[00:10:09] Mark Struczewski: know, the difference between knowing and doing, and that’s where we come 

[00:10:12] Zach White: into play. Well, isn’t that right? So, okay. Take me back. When did you first become aware of your expertise and genius or proclivity to productivity and begin this journey into mastery of this space?

[00:10:27] Has it been a lifetime thing? When did you stumble into Productivity as such a key focus. 

[00:10:34] Mark Struczewski: Officially it started when I was fired from my corporate job back in 2005. Unofficially I was raised in a very structured home. So I was born in 1965 and we didn’t know I would become Mr. Productivity, 59 years later.

[00:10:50] But I was raised in a home where chores were expected to be done on time and correctively correctly with no shortcuts. Mom and dad were very strict on this. It had to be done right. Once I was trained, I had to be done right. So I was the last key kid. And for those listeners that don’t know what that means, I would have a key to my home and I would be home two, three hours before mom and dad got home.

[00:11:15] Everything better be done before mom and dad walked in that door. There is no room for excuses. Oh, I got one of my friend’s house. maybe if I had a major project at school, they’d say, okay, were you working on the project since you got home from school? That would be the only excuse mom and dad would let me get away with because that’s like getting me prepared for the future.

[00:11:36] But it’s really important to understand that as I grew older, I had to have more challenging responsibilities. Like I had to start cutting the lawn. I don’t mind cutting the lawn, it’s the raking part I hated. lot of people have chores, but my parents were really strict about it.

[00:11:52] They had to be done correctly. So if I had to load the dishwasher, it had to be loaded correctly. Now I remember when I didn’t have a dishwasher and I had to wash the I had to wash the dishes by hand then I had to dry them by hand I had to put them away because I had no siblings and my parents gave me the foundation to being productive and so In 2000, I think it was around 2008 or nine.

[00:12:15] I had a coach who actually saw that in me. I did not know. I thought everyone was this productive. I, as you can imagine, I found that a lot of people are not as productive as I am, and that’s okay. Cause I’m here to help you. 

[00:12:29] Zach White: I’m curious that upbringing, a lot of engineers resonate with this idea of. measure twice, cut once, do it right the first time, design the system to be zero defect.

[00:12:42] And all of those are great things in our careers, but occasionally this pattern leads to a spirit of perfectionism. And we fall into that trap of everything around me has to be done perfect. I push everything to that nth degree. And that actually holds us back from getting the highest priorities done and moving to the things that matter because we get stuck on a low priority thing because it’s not as good as it could be.

[00:13:10] And there’s no finish line mark. It’s like, you could keep working on it as long as you want. It can always be. better. You can always find another thing wrong and perfectionism holds a lot of engineering managers and leaders back. So can you describe the difference between the chore needs to be done right?

[00:13:27] And that energy around healthy productivity, when can that go wrong and fall into perfectionism? 

[00:13:34] Mark Struczewski: perfectionism can really quickly move into procrastination because you’re like, well, I don’t know if I can get this project to a hundred percent. So even though 90 percent or 85 percent would get me most of the way there, and I’d be happy with it.

[00:13:54] So people like, well, I’m not going to work on that because I know I can’t get the a hundred percent. So all these projects where you can get pretty close, you may not even start because you are striving for perfection. breaking news. There’s no such thing as a, uh, anything perfecting on this planet, whether it’s an app, a journal, a routine, there’s nothing that’s perfect.

[00:14:18] You have to be okay with giving yourself grace and saying, you know what? I could see this could be improved, but I’m going to launch what I have. I recently did this for one of my pages on my website. It’s about 90 percent there. It’s live, but guess what? I can still make tweaks on it as the weeks go by.

[00:14:39] I have found that since I built this two months ago, I go back and like, and now it’s still pretty good. cause you’re never going to get to a hundred percent. So if you get the 85, 90 percent and it’s serving the purpose, now you don’t want your surgeon to do 85 percent of the job, but I’m saying for most of us, we’re being too hard on ourselves.

[00:14:59] Don’t aim for perfection. It’s something you cannot achieve. 

[00:15:04] Zach White: Yeah. I would imagine even in that crazy example of surgery where it’s like, yeah, that better be perfect. Even within the finer points, there’s probably aspects where if they over indexed on perfectionism with where to put every suture when they’re stitching you up, then you’re open longer than you need to be, etc.

[00:15:24] So I think there’s truth inside what you’re saying in every single domain. You know, there’s always that what is 100 percent or what is perfect. So what are the foundational? Pieces of productivity. We need to get right then. I know you’ve been working on all these different domains. You’ve got clients in every different space, but what are the things everybody needs?

[00:15:44] The blocking and tackling as you see it, that if we get these right, we’re well on our way to experiencing more productivity in our life. 

[00:15:52] Mark Struczewski: I think the big thing people need to focus on is how they start their day. Now, how you start your day is not in the morning. It’s the night before the body loves consistency.

[00:16:06] So as much as possible, go to bed at the same time every night, seven days a week, just so there’s no confusion. I mean, weekends, holidays and vacations get up at the same time every morning. I don’t need my Apple watch to wake me up. I wake up between four 30 and five o’clock every morning. you need to figure out what is the best way for you to start your day.

[00:16:32] My wife and I are empty nesters. We have two dogs. So we don’t have to get kids off to school or anything like that. But if you have little kids, if you have elderly parents living with you, there is a way that you can set yourself up to win the day. A lot of people wake up, they hit the snooze bar, two, three, four, 10 times, and then they’re rushing around like the proverbial chicken with its head cut off.

[00:16:58] What you need to do is you need to figure out well, how can I structure a routine that’s going to serve me? Like for me in the morning, I’m a big proponent of moving. There’s a lot of research saying when you move So I do farmers walks in my house. I do push ups. I do squatting. I do weightlifting I got some dumbbells in my bedroom But for me, that’s what I do and it doesn’t I wear my headphones So i’m not disturbing my wife if she’s still sleeping But that may not work for you, but I encourage you don’t pick up your phone Don’t do that Maybe you go on the back porch and you get a cup of coffee and you just sit and watch the sunrise something that’s going to be Energetic for you something that’s going to allow you to Go into your day in your own terms.

[00:17:50] A lot of people wake up and they’re automatically in a reactive mode and they’re in a frantic and they’re, they’re stressed. That’s not a good way because if you’re starting your day that way, what do you think is going to happen as the day goes on? You’re going to have more stress piled on top of that.

[00:18:06] So I would say the big thing is come up with a bedtime routine. And for those of you who have little kids, They go to bed at 7. Don’t Stay up and watch the late game until 11 o’clock. Go to bed at 8 o’clock. So they’re in bed. You and your wife go to bed. And then get up at a reasonable hour. I mean, there’s ways around it.

[00:18:23] We all have the same 24 hours. And there’s ways to create a routine that works for you. So when people ask me well, give me a routine I said I can’t you’d have to tell me everything that is in your life every person every responsibility And that would be really exhausting, but I just want people to sit back and go How can I start my day on my terms?

[00:18:45] And guess what? You’re going to have to experiment with it. You’re going to try different things, tweak this, learn this. And like, okay, it took me a while to get my current routine and I’m still open for changing the way I start my day. 

[00:18:57] Zach White: Yeah. One thing I hear a lot, especially with that group that has young kids is, you know, Hey Zach, it’s not just me at home.

[00:19:06] I can’t design whatever morning routine I want. If it was up to me, I would do X, Y and Z, but it’s not up to me because I’ve got responsibilities for, you mentioned, you know, elderly parents or little kids in these situations. I need to help my spouse, et cetera. And it immediately becomes the excuse why they cannot design a morning routine that works, or they think the only answer is to get up at 4 a.

[00:19:29] m. or 3 a. m. or some absurd hour that. To them can’t work because they’re going to bed at midnight, et cetera. So this seems like an unsolvable equation to them. What would you suggest if there’s a mental roadblock to this idea that the morning can be a win the day experience for somebody who’s got all these responsibilities outside themself, what are the keys to success there?

[00:19:54] Mark Struczewski: Pick one thing. Don’t start like my morning routines got about 12 parts to it. Okay. my key, what I believe about morning routines is I could do my morning routine anywhere in the world. I don’t have to go to a certain cafe. I don’t have to go to a certain park bench. Okay. It, I can go anywhere in the world, but everyone’s got a morning routine is this most people’s routines is not consistent.

[00:20:17] It’s random. Pick one thing. And if you want to have a call with me, I’ll tell you at the end of the podcast, how we can hop on a 30 minute call, just pick one thing. Don’t overcomplicate it. Don’t go for perfection. Pick one thing. What is one simple thing? We don’t want like a long drawn out thing.

[00:20:36] What is one simple thing? Maybe. It’s packing your lunch the night before. Maybe it’s getting your running shoes or your walking shoes ready. Pick one thing and then start doing that. Once you get that as part of a habit, then you add something else. What a lot of people do, they’ll say, well, Mark does a, B, C, D and E.

[00:20:56] I’m going to do it. No, no, that’s a recipe for disaster. One thing there is power. in the number one. 

[00:21:03] Zach White: I think that’s brilliant. One. And then BJ Fogg’s tiny habits, you know, one thing starts small, you know, do one pushup tomorrow morning, not a hundred. I love it. So, all right. we start the day, we get that energy, right?

[00:21:18] We get ourselves prepared. If we nail that, what would be the second? key building block of productivity in our life. 

[00:21:26] Mark Struczewski: This is going to sound kind of unusual, but I want the listener to hear me. You need to spend time as much time as you can away from negativity. This is not just your phone and the news.

[00:21:39] Do you have yours? Now I’m dating myself. I grew up with Winnie the Pooh. If you don’t know who Winnie the Pooh is, go Google it. But Eeyore is the type of person. It’s going to rain all day. The internet’s going to cut out. I’m going to lose power. I’m going to need a flat tire, et cetera, et cetera. You need to distance yourself from people who are yours.

[00:21:58] People are saying, Zach, why are you working so hard? You’re never going to achieve those goals because what that does, it hits your productivity so hard, harder than most people think, because you hear this negativity and you’re like. Why am I doing all this? You know, Johnny says, why am I working so hard?

[00:22:18] What’s the point? You’re never going to succeed. No one in your family’s ever succeeded. And then, so you start shrinking back. You’re like, well, you know, this getting up early and start my day. Right. It’s so stupid. it’s a really slippery soap. but do your very best to eliminate as much negativity in your life as you can.

[00:22:36] Zach White: That’s good. One thing I say all the time. Is that energy comes before strategy and engineering managers want the strategy like, Zach, how do you do it? Give me the exact recipe. Give me Y equals F of X. They want the formula and just remind them energy before strategy. And this idea of avoiding negative energy so that you actually can focus on being productive and have your best energy available.

[00:23:04] That’s, that’s a really great thing. I totally agree with that. I totally agree. Like 

[00:23:07] Mark Struczewski: when people say. You know, they go, well, how do I do this? You’re like, all right, here’s how you do it. I mean, there’s so no energy there or you could say, okay, here’s how you do it. You know, be excited. You woke up this morning, you’re listening to this podcast.

[00:23:23] You should be excited. Okay. You maybe have pain. You may have a loved one in the hospital. You may, you know, Have a broken leg, but there are people who are healthy who are eeyores and there are people who are Terminal in icu in the hospital who are happy so you get to choose If your happiness and by the way, I believe happiness should be spelled with a Y not an I it’s something I’m trying to go and trying to change that word because happiness, happy is spelled with a Y.

[00:23:54] So I think happiness should be spelled with a Y. I just thought I’d put that in there. 

[00:23:58] Zach White: Hey, you know, why not? We’re going to make a plug. I’ll call Webster. See if we can get that, get that changed. Okay. Here’s something that stands out to me, Mark, cause we’re having this conversation about productivity.

[00:24:10] Most people, especially In tech and in engineering disciplines, manufacturing and civil, and when we say productivity, we tend to think of systems, tools, tech, getting things done, the famous GTD method or productivity systems is where our mind tends to go. maybe your first bullet point, we could call that a system, you know, the habits or the routines of how you start your day.

[00:24:35] But now we’re talking about energy and avoiding negativity. Like these things have nothing to do with my system. So what’s your perspective about that? Are those things important or are we over indexing on thinking that that’s what productivity is? And it’s really something else. 

[00:24:52] Mark Struczewski: When I first got into the productivity coaching business, I really.

[00:24:56] I shamelessly thought it was just calendar apps and task list. Now I understand that productivity is this ginormous umbrella. Let me give you a really weird example. That’s going to get your listeners to go, huh? Stick with me. My favorite sport is European football in the States. They call it soccer. When my team plays like in their tournaments during the week, I schedule my days around them and people go, how is watching football productive?

[00:25:28] Well, it’s my reward. It’s my treat. So the games usually started two o’clock and here in Houston. So I am so excited about that game. I am like rocking and rolling all that morning and I reward myself. To watch the game. Most people would go, it’s a waste of time for me. I disagree for me. It gets me excited because I know I do all these things throughout the day.

[00:25:53] I get to watch my favorite team. So I think that you can take almost anything. I didn’t say everything you could take almost everything and turn it into something that can ramp up your productivity. 

[00:26:06] Zach White: Hmm. So what’s the definition of productivity? That you think of how do you boil it down? 

[00:26:15] Mark Struczewski: For me, it’s doing the right things at the right time and right things means moving you towards your goals now That brings up another point.

[00:26:26] What if I don’t have goals? Well shame on you You should have goals because otherwise, what are you doing every day? if you don’t have goals, you probably don’t have a why It’s got to start with a why or a vision or something. Yes, you take that wire vision That feeds into your goals which feeds what goes on your calendar So if you are working on the things That are going to move you towards your goals so you can fulfill your vision or your why?

[00:26:54] You’re being productive So if someone goes to me, well, what if I spend four hours on tiktok if that’s all I told someone they go That’s unproductive But what if I told you I was spending four hours doing research on my target market? Oh, that’s different. you’ve got to be really careful not to judge people just because you’re on social media You’re wasting time.

[00:27:15] Most people are but you may be doing research. There are these people called social media managers They have to be on social media to find out what new things are going on So I don’t want people to make blanket judgments on people. I want you to stop back and go. Hmm Maybe they’re doing some research It could possibly be.

[00:27:35] So I don’t like making blanket statements because number one, over my past 59 years, I’ve gotten burned by blanket statements. So I, I’m like, eh, maybe it’s almost always true, but try to not say always. 

[00:27:50] Zach White: I like the definition and it actually aligns really well. With our philosophy in coaching with engineering leaders, we have a method we call the lifestyle engineering blueprint, and you’ll appreciate this mark.

[00:28:02] The there’s four pillars. It’s built on a foundation of your mindset, but there’s four pillars. And as we go through the coaching, the first pillar is purpose, getting that why really clear your life purpose, your values, the, the driving why. So that’s the first piece. The second pillar is priority, getting the vision and the goals and the choice of what actually matters most to you really clearly defined.

[00:28:26] And then the third pillar is productivity. And I always remind engineering leaders, if you come to me and ask for productivity tips, First, I’m still gonna walk you through the whole process because productivity in the absence of purpose and priority has no meaning. And so the reason I want to walk through this, then my fourth pillar is people, because while productivity begins with yourself, if you aren’t managing, Yourself.

[00:28:51] If you don’t have self control, you’re not going to be able to lead others, but if you want to hit those big goals and hit your dreams in life, you’re not going to do that alone. We’re all working in this together. So tell me about productivity in the context of leadership in, the domain of our work as engineering leaders, how do we help others become productive?

[00:29:10] How do we collaborate like any keys to success in taking that lens for myself and now helping other people? 

[00:29:18] Mark Struczewski: It’s got to start at the top. so many people are saying, I am the leader. This is productive. Go do it. Wait a minute. You’re not being productive. I don’t care if you’re leading a team of two, 20, 20, 000, it’s got to start from the top.

[00:29:35] I am amazed by the number of people come to me and say, well, my boss is, his productivity is horrible. He’s just a dictator. And I’m like the wrong person’s on the call. You need to have your boss on this call because people Whether leaders effective or not, they’re looking at the leader. And if the leader comes in late and leaves early and takes long lunches, And then you’re telling your employees, well you got to get here early, work through lunch and stay late.

[00:30:05] Like, well, you’re not. And so I think fundamental principle leadership, you’ve got to demonstrate what you want people to do and how you want them to go throughout their day. And from the numerous people I talked to both as clients and people I know in the corporate world, They say, that’s not happening more often than not is being dictated.

[00:30:28] They should do thus and such, but they’re not doing it. And they wonder why they’re not doing it because they don’t see you doing it. you have to be willing to lead your people the right way. And if you don’t want to do it, if you don’t like doing it, then why would you think your team wants to do it?

[00:30:46] and that’s a fundamental truth of leadership. 

[00:30:51] Zach White: I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a second. So Mark, my boss. You know, he’s really productive, but he’s working 60 hours a week. He’s the first one in he’s working through lunch. He rarely even takes lunch. He’s the last one out and he’s logging back on at 11 PM putting in two more hours and he expects me to do the same.

[00:31:12] Does that mean I need to match that to be productive? 

[00:31:18] Mark Struczewski: No. What that means is you need to go to your boss and saying, My bandwidth is this wide. I have this much bandwidth. I’ve got a spouse. I’ve got kids. I got an elderly parent. I got someone in the hospital. I can’t do this.

[00:31:34] So can I work my 40 hours a week or no? And they say, no,I expect you to mirror me. Well then you have a choice, right? Either do it or you go get another job. I don’t think anybody listening to the show has got a gun to their head. And they have to go to the job. 

[00:31:54] But you have the power. Yeah. Don’t tell your boss you have the power to start looking for another job. There’s ways to do this anonymously Yeah. You have to go and work your hardest and do your best at this employer, but you have a right to be treated with dignity and respect.

[00:32:11] And if you are, I’m a family person. Male or female you’re a family person and you like being home at six o’clock for family dinner You like to go in the recitals? Well, then don’t go get a job that requires you to get there four o’clock in the morning and work until nine o’clock at night You have that choice and a lot of people say what am I supposed to do?

[00:32:30] I don’t know the skills to move then go learn the skills. I mean you may not be able to do it today It may take you a year, but don’t sit there and be punched in the face day after day Start doing something so you can extract yourself from that situation You 

[00:32:44] Zach White: Yep. If we link it back to your definition of productivity, right things at the right time, I would argue if family is a core priority and a value of yours to be at at dinner at the table and be at that recital, then doing work at 6 p.

[00:33:01] m. is the wrong time for you to be doing those things. 100%. And it’s really plain and simple. It doesn’t mean you’re not productive. It means you’re being productive in your whole life, which includes doing the right things for your marriage, for your kids, for your health, for all those priorities. So I love that answer.

[00:33:20] I just wanted to see your thoughts. My last corporate 

[00:33:21] Mark Struczewski: job, I had a boss, 

[00:33:24] Zach White: And I 

[00:33:25] Mark Struczewski: would go to him. He’d give me all these projects now go to him and say, Hey, I’m out of bandwidth.

[00:33:32] Okay. You give me this, this, this, this, and this. His response was don’t care. Get it done. And fortunately I didn’t realize at the time, fortunately they fired me. One of the best things that ever happened to me because I was so stressed. I was so miserable. I was bringing it home. 

[00:33:50] I went to him as I recommend all my clients and anyone listening to this podcast. If you are out of bandwidth to go to your leader and say, Hey, here’s the situation. A good leader will go, Oh my goodness. I had no idea. Uh, Did I give you so much work? you know what? Sally can take this and Bobby can take this.

[00:34:11] Is that okay? That’s what a good leader would do. Unfortunately, just cause you’re a leader doesn’t mean you know how to lead a corporate environment. 

[00:34:21] Zach White: One of the things I do in that situation, if you have the boss who says, just get it done anyway, is to push back and use that how question. Yeah. Okay. Mark, if Mark, you’re my boss, like, Okay, if this is something that you see as possible to get done in a reasonable time, how can I do that?

[00:34:40] What am I missing? Can you show me? Can you coach me? Can you teach me what it is that I must be doing wrong that it’s going to take me three days and you’re telling me to get it done in one. So I’m missing something. Like how can I do that? Make that leader be the leader. And when then they realize, well, actually you’re better at your job than they are.

[00:34:59] And you do it faster than they do anyway. And there is no way to get it done in one day. It’s a three day assignment. Yeah. One thing you’re missing there though. Yeah. Go. One 

[00:35:07] Mark Struczewski: thing you’re missing there is say, how do I do this and do everything else on my plate? So if you just ask them how to do this and you haven’t reminded them to get the 12 tasks they gave you, then they go, Oh, You got plenty of time, but if you say, Hey, how am I going to do this?

[00:35:24] And the other six things I got to do done today now, like, You’re the leader. What lead me? that’s why I tell people, I say, I’m out of bandwidth. What’s the number one priority. What’s my number two priority. What’s the number three priority.

[00:35:35] And if you’re really good, say, Hey, can you send it to me in email? So you got to track, okay. It’s just because. Sometimes leaders are so busy, they don’t realize they gave Sally 12 things to do and she can only do 10 a day. Maybe you go into the office, if they’re an effective leader, they’ll go, Oh my gosh, I can’t believe they gave you so much stuff to do.

[00:35:54] But most people don’t say anything. What they do is they show up really early, sacrifice going through lunch, very rarely use the restroom, stay late, miss all the things at home because they’re too scared to go to the leader and say, uh, I got a problem. if you don’t go to your leader, don’t assume if you don’t go to your leader, well, he may not, he or she may not be aware of the problem.

[00:36:18] That’s right. Now, if you go to leader and they’re jerk, well, that’s totally different situation, but they may be oblivious to how overwhelmed you are. 

[00:36:26] Zach White: On the whole, Mark, I think there’s fewer jerks than people who are just so busy of their own, stuff they’re doing that they don’t realize what they’ve actually asked.

[00:36:35] So I think your, your strategy there is absolutely spot on. And the key word, scared. There’s a reason my coaching company is named the Oasis of Courage, because that fear. That’s the real thing that will hold you back from creating the career in the life of your dreams. So mark, this has been incredible. I know people are going to want that time with you to go deeper, start following your content.

[00:36:57] So where can an engineering leader tuned in today? Go get more from Mr. Productivity. 

[00:37:04] Mark Struczewski: Mr. Productivity. com M I S T E R. Mr. Productivity. com. When you go to my site, you’ll see an email opt in form, but right above there’s a button. If you click that button right now, as of August 29th, it is orange. You click that button, you’ll be taken to a page and I give you a 30 minute call with me.

[00:37:25] Now what’s interesting is so few people take advantage of this. If Tony Robbins offered me a 30 minute call for free, I would be signing up. If Brendan Burchard or Gary Vaynerchuk or Grant Cardone, but so few people do it, they go, well, what’s the catch? Well, obviously I’m going to tell you about my coaching program.

[00:37:45] Obviously I want to blow your socks off that you become a client, but I really give you about 26, 27 minutes of value on the call. Why people don’t take advantage of this. I can’t make it any easier. Mrproductivity. com. If you sign up for my email list, you’ll get a link at the bottom of every email, or you can just click the button and don’t even have to join my email list.

[00:38:05] How about that? Sign up for the call, but I’m only looking for serious people. So if you are, you just want to party all weekend, you’re a big gamer. You have no goals. You’re like, ah, whatever happens in life. This is not for you, but I don’t think that’s your audience. I’m looking for people who are seriously considering going to the next level.

[00:38:25] They’re like, something’s missing and you need someone unbiased like me to come in. Now, I will call you out on your BS. if I, during the call, you share with me something and I’m like, Oh, that you’re wasting time. I’m not going to be gentle about it because my time’s valuable and your time’s valuable.

[00:38:41] I’m going to say, Zack, why are you doing that? I don’t see how that fits in your goals and your vision. What are you doing that for? So I will call you out on it. And I think any, I hope you do this with your clients too. you don’t let them get away with BS. You’re like, Hey, time out. Whoa.

[00:38:56] I’m that what you just said doesn’t make any sense to me. So mrproductivity. com 

[00:39:01] Zach White: amazing. I could tell you with certainty. The engineering leaders who listen to the show are not wasting their life sitting around gaming and eating Cheetos, collecting dust on their fingertips. So you’ve heard it here. You know how to connect with Mark.

[00:39:13] Happy engineer. I’d encourage you go take advantage of that. Don’t miss that opportunity. Mark, you know, as a coach, you know, in productivity expertise and all the work you do. Questions lead, the answers follow, and we’re all out there looking for better answers. How do we get more done? How do we get that next promotion?

[00:39:33] How do I have the happiness and the dream life that I want? But if we want better answers, we got to ask better questions. So what would be the question that you would lead the happy engineer with coming out of this chat today? 

[00:39:49] Mark Struczewski: What do I want to achieve in my life? Most people are thinking What do I have to do today?

[00:39:58] What do I have to do this week? What do I have to do this month or this quarter? But I want you to zoom out and not think about just your current occupation Because I know non engineers are probably going to listen to the show as well What do you want out of life? I recently went through a boot camp and I got a really crystal clear vision now I never had this kind of clarity before Because I was zoomed in too far I mean, not too far, too close to what I wanted when I zoomed out.

[00:40:29] I’m like, okay, I’m only 59. I fully anticipate not only living to 110, but running on my 110th birthday and be inactive. So I’ve got like 52 years left. What do I want to do? Oh, one year goals, three year goals, five year goals, seven year goals, but you got to figure out what do you want? Maybe you want to go to DG for two weeks and just, have a digital detox.

[00:40:55] What do you want? And most people are putting the cart before the horse. How do I go here? I’m like, well, we’ll start with the, what, what do you want? Not your employer, not your boss, not your coach, not your mentor, not Zach, not Mark. What do you want? And I encourage people to go get an old fashioned notebook and one of these things, call a pen and just sit out there without your headphones on.

[00:41:22] with a bottle of water, and just start brainstorming. What do I want? Most people I’ve encountered in my life don’t take time to gift themselves the time to figure out what they want out of life. And they settle. 

[00:41:37] Zach White: What do I want to achieve with my life? Mark, this has been awesome. Thank you for the time today.

[00:41:44] Encourage happy engineer. Go connect with Mark, take advantage of that call and sir, keep crushing it. I want to acknowledge you for changing lives, helping everybody get through the stuff that holds them back, that procrastination, all the excuses and the BS that keeps us from achieving those things that we really want.

[00:42:01] Keep doing it. You’re the man. Thank you,